Cali Kid Corals

Cyano Like You Wouldn't Believe

MolaMola

Supporting Member
I have had an ongoing plague of I think cyano (and algae) and yesterday read a fascinating and disturbing article about this menace in a 2016 issue of Coral magazine. I will post some freaky facts tonight when I have time. Now even more depressed about it than I already was.
This year I got so overwhelmed by classroom tanks that I just kept them going and did not deal with issues or ask for advice enough and just froze. Unfortunately, I'll be gone most of next week, but at least I can devise a plan of attack to make serious changes when I return.
Cyano: I do water changes by vacuuming out cyano but not every day. The past couple months I've been doing maybe 15-20% WC every week or two, but was more infrequent over the past year. Started using filter socks last year only during water changes, then stopped, then started again and have been changing every 3-4 days since I have been trying to do weekly WC. Sadly, I have not been taking care of alk and Ca basically ever and am preparing dosers today on the big tank and starting them when I am back. While I'm gone a friend can add 2-part some days. Can't boost up too fast especially when I am gone but a bit every day will help at least keep it from dropping.
Water chem - I will test again today, but I think lately: o measurable nitrate, phosphate (but it must be there), dKH 5-6, Ca 350.
Only contains a few LPS now: hydnophora, duncan, platygyra maze brain, war coral look just great and are growing. Hollywood stunner and IWSYU echino growing but not very colorful. Those are some hardy corals. Also a pretty large rock flower anemone.
I would appreciate any suggestions for getting back on track, like vacuuming it out, water changes, water chemistry, flow, lighting, chaeto in fuge, using kalk temporarily to boost, anything you think of. My husband thinks scrubbing the rocks could help, though it will come right back. I think we fed too much food to inverts for a couple of years and there may be a lot of trapped detritus. I will be using 2-part in the future, do not want to deal with kalk.
There is also currently a clown-BTA and frag tank that recently started to have the same issues.
IMG_2199.JPG

IMG_2215.jpg
 
pH note: Just checking logs and noticed that Apr-Jun when school was in session pH fell to 7.8 during day, rising to 8.1 at night AND to 8.3 on weekend. Jun-now while no one is in the room, it has been rising to 8.42! during day, falling to 8.05 at night. Is this from so much oxygen being produced by the cyano?
 
Definitely a ton of burgundy, which is cyano, right?
The rest looks like golden hair algae, with all those bubbles starting recently. There is a general chemical odor. I guess I have an assortment of problems.
 
If that purplish stuff is soft and fluffy forming mats then it’s probably cyano, but the stringy brown stuff with bubbles is concerning for dinos, which are a bigger problem in my opinion.
 
Agree, looks like purple = Cyano, Brown = Dinos.

But that is not all bad. If you have both Cyano and Algae, that would be really confusing.

Opinion (that a lot of people share) :
Cyano and Dinos do great with Very Low Nitrates, and a carbon source.
They don't really "like" it, but can out compete algae at that point.

Things to try and think about:

*) Manual removal as much as possible.
Obvious.

*) Add Nitrates
Weird, but yes, I recommend this for a short period. Definitely try this!

*) Stop any carbon dosing.

*) Remove a lot of sand, by siphoning off top layer.
It looks like you have about 2", correct? And it does not appear to be getting mixed up at all.
I have a feeling a lot of problems are coming from that sand bed.
You want thin (1/2") or thick (4"+), not in between.

*) Chemiclean.
I usually do not recommend chemicals, but this might be the time. Use carefully.

*) Get a GFO reactor
Your phosphates will test out low because of Cyano, but they are really not.
You need to export them.

*) Add pods
Get those pods eating things.

*) Definitely get the Alk stable. Don't care how or what level, just stable.
Ca is not so important given what you have in the tank.
 
I have used chemiclean with no problems.

Other things to try - leave the tank dark for a few days, even covering the tank up will help. Also increasing flow in tank helps too.
 
Definitely looks like GHA and dinoflagellates. I have a microscope and can tell you for certain, if you can get me a sample of the bubbly snot. Since I've been able to scope things, I have discovered that the mats are almost always a combination of diatoms and dinoflagellates. The diatoms will dominate at first and your cleanup is going to be *much* easier during this phase. If the dinoflagellates come to dominate the mats, then it will be *much* harder.

Physical removal and outcompeting them is definitely the way to go. I cured my last minor outbreak of dinos with Dr Tims and Arctic Pods.
 
Agree, looks like purple = Cyano, Brown = Dinos.

But that is not all bad. If you have both Cyano and Algae, that would be really confusing.

Opinion (that a lot of people share) :
Cyano and Dinos do great with Very Low Nitrates, and a carbon source.
They don't really "like" it, but can out compete algae at that point.

Things to try and think about:

*) Manual removal as much as possible.
Obvious.

*) Add Nitrates
Weird, but yes, I recommend this for a short period. Definitely try this!

*) Stop any carbon dosing.

*) Remove a lot of sand, by siphoning off top layer.
It looks like you have about 2", correct? And it does not appear to be getting mixed up at all.
I have a feeling a lot of problems are coming from that sand bed.
You want thin (1/2") or thick (4"+), not in between.

*) Chemiclean.
I usually do not recommend chemicals, but this might be the time. Use carefully.

*) Get a GFO reactor
Your phosphates will test out low because of Cyano, but they are really not.
You need to export them.

*) Add pods
Get those pods eating things.

*) Definitely get the Alk stable. Don't care how or what level, just stable.
Ca is not so important given what you have in the tank.

Agree with all of the above and I'll add:

*) Reduced light schedule. Randy Homes-Farley recommends 2-4 hours. I didn't think this would help, but I tried it. Definitely slows them down.

*) Use a powerhead or a turkey baster to blow the detritus off your rocks, right before a water change.

*) Use a fine mesh filter sock while siphoning off the mats. This will trap a lot of the bits that break up in the water column. Then clean the filter sock once the water column clarifies.

*) Try raising your pH. Kalkwasser drip is the preferred method of doing this. If you've never used Kalk before, know that it is *extremely* concentrated. I dissolve a 1/4 teaspoon in a quart of RO/DI, then drip it into my 110 gal capacity system over an hour or two and it raises the pH by 0.1 or 0.2.
 
Thank you so much everyone!
+ Sand bed - Yes, it is 3/4" in frag tank up to 1 1/2" in reef and clown tanks. I love sandbeds and wanted shrimp-goby in clown tank, but I agree this sand is mucky. Don't know if not enough current goes down there also.
+ Re: Dr Tim's - is that Waste Away? One and Only Bacteria? I actually just received both products.
+ Filter socks - is thick sock okay instead of fine mesh? seems to trap fine sediments
+ Will make pH and Alk a priority
+ What is a recommended nitrate source? I read that Spectracide tree stump remover is Potassium nitrate. Not sure what nitrates would be suitable.
+ Pods - like tiger/random copepods?

I've never looked at Reef2Reef before, but I found a 250+ page thread about dinoflagellate ID and treatments. Crazy! Anyway, I did a test with hydrogen peroxide and it looks like what all of you said - definitely cyano plus more.

Bubbles from peroxide = cyano:
IMG_2238.JPG


@OnTheReef - better microscope and camera is at school; not sure if you can see anything here or need higher magnification. Everything has peroxide in the water. Golden mat on rock in main tank:
IMG_2257.JPG


Golden mat on sandbed in clown tank:
IMG_2256.jpg


Stringy stuff:
IMG_2267.JPG
 
Thank you so much everyone!
Stringy stuff:
View attachment 9991
You've got a little bit of everything. You can see some strands of cyanobacteria in the upper left, there are several diatoms visible on the bottom margin of the inner clear area and the oblong golden green objects are dinoflagellates. If you use a droplet slide or wedge up the sides of your cover slip with something thin, you'll be able to see them swim. The green cottony appearance of the biomass is probably caused by GHA filaments. Fortuntately, this particular type of dinoflagellates are less toxic and less hardy than some others, so persistence in removal, reduced lighting and nutrient control should put you in a much better place.

I was referring to Dr. Tim's One and Only for treating the areas where you remove the mats.
 
...
+ What is a recommended nitrate source? I read that Spectracide tree stump remover is Potassium nitrate. Not sure what nitrates would be suitable.
...
I used Calcium Nitrate, from Amazon.
Both would be fine. Does not really matter the "other part" is usually a very low percentage.
As long as it is fairly pure.
 
Ok, so leaving today for a week, so doing what I can before I go, then continuing daily starting next Monday.
Wondering about specifics of lighting schedule and for how many days. ?? I can adjust one tank with an Apex while I'm gone, but not the clown tank which definitely has dinos. There are BTAs in there, so I don't know how much light reduction they can take. A friend could change the clowns' light timer on Day 3 or 4 for me if needed.
 
The no-lights is a double edged sword though.
Part of the problem is killing Cyano, and it helps for that.
Another part is to help Algae out compete Cyano, and it hurts that.
 
I guess I will add pods, maybe bacteria, dose alk, and lights off on Nem tank until Thurs or Fri.
In big reef tank (also reducing light) I have fuge with Chaeto. Would you light that or not?
 
the clown tank which definitely has dinos. There are BTAs in there, so I don't know how much light reduction they can take.
I had the same concern while dealing with a small outbreak of dinos recently. My two BTAs survived a 48 hour blackout, followed by 5 days of 4-hour light. They lost a bit of their most brilliant colors, but those are coming back now.


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