AI Lights

[musclebenz]

Don’t let the initial impression fool you. Because, I think this is a really backward move. The AP700 is far more superior in performance compared to AI Hydra. I can give you a whole day worth of explanation if you have the time to talk about it in the shop.

Thanks Robert

 

[robert4025]

I have 12 x AI prime. Well, actually 11 now.
They do get clogged with dust pretty easy, but you can just vaccum the screen without taking anything apart.

The real problem: the UV LED will actually melt the lens in front of it.
This has happened to 3 of them so far.
One melted and seems to have fried the LED itself, and the light.
It was in the corner, so still has not been replaced.

On the other hand, I really like the color and spread.

I have 12 x AI prime. Well, actually 11 now.
They do get clogged with dust pretty easy, but you can just vaccum the screen without taking anything apart.

The real problem: the UV LED will actually melt the lens in front of it.
This has happened to 3 of them so far.
One melted and seems to have fried the LED itself, and the light.
It was in the corner, so still has not been replaced.

On the other hand, I really like the color and spread.

I have 12 x AI prime. Well, actually 11 now.
They do get clogged with dust pretty easy, but you can just vaccum the screen without taking anything apart.

The real problem: the UV LED will actually melt the lens in front of it.
This has happened to 3 of them so far.
One melted and seems to have fried the LED itself, and the light.
It was in the corner, so still has not been replaced.

On the other hand, I really like the color and spread.

You know, even if the lens on the UV diodes didn’t melt, chances are they are probably useless after about a year of use anyway. UV diodes naturally runs hotter than the rest of the diodes in modern fixtures due to the shorter wavelength so over time the wavelength shifts longer and longer due to the degradation of the diode junction points. So while you may see it’s still “on”, it doesn’t means it still at the correct wavelength. This is why most UV bulbs (even traditional design) have a relatively short life span. Kessil wouldn’t disclose to me because it’s IP thing but they found a way to extend their UV LED lifespan longer than the other guys.

Reef Builder did a test a while back and they found that Kessil does indeed has the most and longest lasting UV output compared to AI and Radeons. And this is just one example.

 

[rygh]

You know, even if the lens on the UV diodes didn’t melt, chances are they are probably useless after about a year of use anyway. UV diodes naturally runs hotter than the rest of the diodes in modern fixtures due to the shorter wavelength so over time the wavelength shifts longer and longer due to the degradation of the diode junction points. So while you may see it’s still “on”, it doesn’t means it still at the correct wavelength. This is why most UV bulbs (even traditional design) have a relatively short life span. Kessil wouldn’t disclose to me because it’s IP thing but they found a way to extend their UV LED lifespan longer than the other guys.

Reef Builder did a test a while back and they found that Kessil does indeed has the most and longest lasting UV output compared to AI and Radeons. And this is just one example.

Agree.

There is really no "secret" though.

1) Buy higher quality diodes.
The defect density in the silicon directly correlates to longevity, and usually correlates to cost.

2) Reduce the current
Current density is key.
If you have two diodes running at half power it puts out about the same light (more actually).
It costs more, but the UV diodes are not a huge percentage of the fixture cost, and it will last far longer.

3) Keep the temperature down.
High quality heat sink.
Note that this comes for free when you reduce the current.

 

[robert4025]

Agree.

There is really no "secret" though.

1) Buy higher quality diodes.
The defect density in the silicon directly correlates to longevity, and usually correlates to cost.

2) Reduce the current
Current density is key.
If you have two diodes running at half power it puts out about the same light (more actually).
It costs more, but the UV diodes are not a huge percentage of the fixture cost, and it will last far longer.

3) Keep the temperature down.
High quality heat sink.
Note that this comes for free when you reduce the current.

I think your 2nd and 3rd point makes total sense. There is a lot of technologies that they cramped into their little Dense Matrix Cluster to make it work with their Kessil Logic driver and combing with the advanced thermal management in wicking heat directly away from those diodes, that’s probably why theirs lasts longer.

A long time ago when Kessil gave me a tour of the facility after their first gen lights (A150) was released, they explained how they used bimetallic layers of different metal sandwiched together so the thermal coefficient of each layers natural draws the heat away from the diodes immediately and then after that process remaining heat would goes through some sort of vapor cooling techniques had me so impressed. Got me sold on their engineering prowess right after that. So much cool techs goes into their lights.

On top of that, when you can mfg your own un-encapsulated diodes, you can cramp as many as you want into your design so therefore you can run at lower power. Exactly like you mentioned in your 2nd point.

 

[sfsuphysics]

2) Reduce the current
Current density is key.
If you have two diodes running at half power it puts out about the same light (more actually).
It costs more, but the UV diodes are not a huge percentage of the fixture cost, and it will last far longer.

Kind of an aside Philips makes a screw in LED bulb, it has those long strips of LEDs so that it looks more like an old school incandescent bulb. Well they also make something that's referred to as a "Dubai version" where something something due to requirements (not going to go into specifics, mostly because I don't know), but bottom line for the same wattage bulbs they have twice the LED count, meaning they all run at half the current, hence last longer, and perhaps closer to that B.S. marketing garbage of "lasts 20 years" that LEDs were promised to us at, instead of being early on forced obsolescence (but that's where I'll end on that )

Bottom line, I think they (AI) simply tried to minimize the costs that happily ran within specs without worrying about longevity.

 

[rygh]

I think your 2nd and 3rd point makes total sense. There is a lot of technologies that they cramped into their little Dense Matrix Cluster to make it work with their Kessil Logic driver and combing with the advanced thermal management in wicking heat directly away from those diodes, that’s probably why theirs lasts longer.

A long time ago when Kessil gave me a tour of the facility after their first gen lights (A150) was released, they explained how they used bimetallic layers of different metal sandwiched together so the thermal coefficient of each layers natural draws the heat away from the diodes immediately and then after that process remaining heat would goes through some sort of vapor cooling techniques had me so impressed. Got me sold on their engineering prowess right after that. So much cool techs goes into their lights.

On top of that, when you can mfg your own un-encapsulated diodes, you can cramp as many as you want into your design so therefore you can run at lower power. Exactly like you mentioned in your 2nd point.

Hmm, vapor chamber heat pipe cooling?
That is used on really high end heat sinks.
I am impressed. But also having seen Kessil's taken apart, a bit skeptical. The tubes are usually pretty obvious.
But no direct knowledge, so not saying either way.

Regardless: I do feel there is a big difference in quality between AI and Kessil.

Now if Kessil would just make a modern fanless 150X not-quite-so-blue light, I would replace all my AI ones.

 

[robert4025]

Kind of an aside Philips makes a screw in LED bulb, it has those long strips of LEDs so that it looks more like an old school incandescent bulb. Well they also make something that's referred to as a "Dubai version" where something something due to requirements (not going to go into specifics, mostly because I don't know), but bottom line for the same wattage bulbs they have twice the LED count, meaning they all run at half the current, hence last longer, and perhaps closer to that B.S. marketing garbage of "lasts 20 years" that LEDs were promised to us at, instead of being early on forced obsolescence (but that's where I'll end on that )

Bottom line, I think they (AI) simply tried to minimize the costs that happily ran within specs without worrying about longevity.

Considering the average hobbyists seems to always want to upgrade to the latest and greatest anyway, and that’s usually 3-5 years average, I think they knew what they were doing when that made that decision…

 

[xCry0x]

I don't know - I hate how much technology now adays seems to break in that 3-5 year window.

That said, I can appreciate reef tank stuff gets a lot of abuse. Electronic heavy lights being on for 12 hours a day sitting 9 inches above salt water is a tough set of conditions to expect real longevity out of.

 

[Coral reefer]

Still running my AI sol blues 10 years later. Par still good.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Considering the average hobbyists seems to always want to upgrade to the latest and greatest anyway, and that’s usually 3-5 years average, I think they knew what they were doing when that made that decision…

That's debatable, if anything because the "average hobbyist" isn't going to be in the hobby for3-5 years.

That said, I don't think it was a matter of making a decision, I really believe all these lighting manufacturers really didn't know any better. Must like all the DIYers out there, that's all that these aquarium lighting companies were, DIYers just with much bigger budgets and ability to fabricate prototypes. That is all of the aquarium lighting companies except Kessil, they branched off actual LED manufacturers so they know a thing or two when it comes to their product.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Still running my AI sol blues 10 years later. Par still good.

And those don't have any violet LEDs, and were built in a time when they largely slapped a huge hunk of metal heatsink to some LEDs, which seems to be a design that works long term.

 

[Coral reefer]

And those don't have any violet LEDs, and were built in a time when they largely slapped a huge hunk of metal heatsink to some LEDs, which seems to be a design that works long term.

Just offering my input that is counter to the ai isn’t gonna last opinion.