Neptune Aquatics

Kent Garlic Xtreme Questions

Euphyllia

Euphyllia

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I bought Kent Garlic Xtreme today to try to recover my Blue Spot Jawfish. Sadly, the day after I bought him I noticed white patches on his body (not ich, possibly BSJ disease) which I assume is a bacterial infection. The LFS had him in a 78F (or higher) tank which could've stressed him, and when I moved him to my tank he developed an infection (more than likely from the stress of collection, shipping, and changing tanks). My tank is around 74F, which hopefully will keep the stress level lower.

Anyways, I have a few questions...

1. Do I need to take carbon filtration while using this?
2. It says to dose it directly to the tank for bacterial infections. How often should I dose it to the tank?
3. Can I use this along with Melafix, which also helps with bacterial infections?
4. If I dose it to the tank, should I also put it in the food?
5. If I can dose it to the tank and put it in the food, would it be best to feed the Jawfish more than once per day with this in the food? He seems stressed every day until I feed him... I'm thinking I should feed him more than once per day.

If you can think of anything else I need to know, please feel free to tell me.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read all of this!
 
Isn't all of the garlic extract the same? I've been told by a few people online and at LFS that they've used Garlic Xtreme and it's worked for them. I'm still going to dose it just to see if it even helps a little. I also have Melafix that I plan to dose in the tank. It's completely natural and reef-safe, so it's not as strong. I'm hoping to do everything I can to try and save this fish, because the LFS I got him from says they won't refund my money even if the fish is healthy, sick, or dead.
 
The whole idea of "garlic cures everything" is complete crap. I'd second guess your sources because they're full of shit.
Before you randomly start dosing medications to the tank I think it would be a better idea to ID the cause first. Any other symptoms beside white patches? (heavy breathing, loss of appetite etc.)
 
Nope, he's perfectly fine other than the patches. He's dug four holes (3-1/2 really...) over the past week and he's lined them all with lots of rubble. He heats every day and will hang out on the sand away from his hole during the day since there are no other fish in the tank to bother him. He will hover over the sand at night, rest on the sand, and take short swims. The only things I see that concern me are that he doesn't go in his hole until after I feed him in the afternoon. He will swim around the tank during the day, and if I get too close he will rapidly swim at the sides of the tank and sometimes try and jump out, but he is stopped by the glass hood. There are no signs of stress except for those two things.

Also, I'm not following the idea of "garlic cures everything". I'm just doing everything I can to try and save this fish, which is why I bought the Melafix and the Kent Garlic Xtreme. I strongly believe whatever he has is a bacterial infection in it's early stages, however I'm not sure if it's BSJ Disease at this point.

EDIT: Here's a pic of the white (more silver than white, actually) patches. Two more single splotches have developed further up the body since the picture was taken.

j5ats5.jpg
 
If you wanted to do everything you can for the fish you would put him in a QT tank, figure out what is actually wrong with the fish, and treat accordingly. Garlic is not any kind of cure, and IIRC correctly so is Melafix (which has had reports of being not at all reef safe). Using Melafix is just as likely to hurt the fish as it is to help.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that 'easy' over the counter 'remedies' is doing everything you can or will actually do anything besides making you feel like you are doing something. Using garlic to treat a bacterial infection (if it really is that) is like using Echinacea to cure cancer. Using Melafix is just as likely to hurt the fish as it is to help.

If you don't want to do really figure out what is wrong and treat, feed the crap out of him (which you should do for any new animal). As many times a day as he will take food.
 
Thales said:
If you wanted to do everything you can for the fish you would put him in a QT tank, figure out what is actually wrong with the fish, and treat accordingly. Garlic is not any kind of cure, and IIRC correctly so is Melafix (which has had reports of being not at all reef safe). Using Melafix is just as likely to hurt the fish as it is to help.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that 'easy' over the counter 'remedies' is doing everything you can or will actually do anything besides making you feel like you are doing something. Using garlic to treat a bacterial infection (if it really is that) is like using Echinacea to cure cancer. Using Melafix is just as likely to hurt the fish as it is to help.

If you don't want to do really figure out what is wrong and treat, feed the crap out of him (which you should do for any new animal). As many times a day as he will take food.
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What would you suggest doing to try and heal him? I don't have enough space in my room to set up a QT tank and my parents won't let me put one anywhere else in the house. IMHO, I think setting up a QT tank would stress him more because he'll be in a new environment, and with more stress comes a weakened immune system, however that's just my logic. I'll see if the LFS will let me return the Melafix since it has a chance of being harmful to the fish or the corals in the tank.

I tried to get an ID on the disease/infection on Nano-reef.com, but nobody came up with any disease in particular. If it is a bacterial infection, wouldn't the garlic work since it's a natural bacterial inhibitor?

I'll try and feed him three times per day until he gets better. I'll put Selcon in one of the feeding each day if that's not too much. Selcon has Vitamin B12, Omega-3 HUFA, and Vitamin C. If it doesn't help with fighting the disease/infection, at least he'll be healthier while recovering. :)
 
I don't have enough space in my room to set up a QT tank and my parents won't let me put one anywhere else in the house. IMHO, I think setting up a QT tank would stress him more because he'll be in a new environment, and with more stress comes a weakened immune system, however that's just my logic. I'll see if the LFS will let me return the Melafix since it has a chance of being harmful to the fish or the corals in the tank.
Click to expand...
If a QT is properly setup it will be a lot LESS stressful than being introduced into the DT. No competition for food, no bright lighting, no bullying, lower water flow etc. The QT doesn't need to be fancy, a 10 gallon tank in a closet would do. But like any tank a QT needs time to mature so in this case it is too late.

If it is a bacterial infection, wouldn't the garlic work since it's a natural bacterial inhibitor?
Click to expand...
Garlic isn't proven to do ANYTHING, there are people on the internet that claim no man ever landed on the moon, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Rich wrote a great article on Reefsmagazine about skeptical reefing, I'll see if I can dig it up for ya.
 
Joost_ said:
I don't have enough space in my room to set up a QT tank and my parents won't let me put one anywhere else in the house. IMHO, I think setting up a QT tank would stress him more because he'll be in a new environment, and with more stress comes a weakened immune system, however that's just my logic. I'll see if the LFS will let me return the Melafix since it has a chance of being harmful to the fish or the corals in the tank.
Click to expand...
If a QT is properly setup it will be a lot LESS stressful than being introduced into the DT. No competition for food, no bright lighting, no bullying, lower water flow etc. The QT doesn't need to be fancy, a 10 gallon tank in a closet would do. But like any tank a QT needs time to mature so in this case it is too late.

If it is a bacterial infection, wouldn't the garlic work since it's a natural bacterial inhibitor?
Click to expand...
Garlic isn't proven to do ANYTHING, there are people on the internet that claim no man ever landed on the moon, you shouldn't believe everything you read. Rich wrote a great article on Reefsmagazine about skeptical reefing, I'll see if I can dig it up for ya.
Click to expand...

The tank with the BSJ in it has no other fish, so there is no bullying and no competition for food. The tank doesn't have a lot of flow and I was actually planning to upgrade my pumps in a few months. I could put a few layers of plasticy-cloth mesh netting over the top of the tank to dim the MH, which is what I did when I first got him to acclimate him to the light. The only thing this tank has that a properly-setup QT wouldn't have is coral (and a strong light, but I'm going to dim that with mesh netting).

I think it's worth a shot to try dosing garlic. Are there any major problems that come along with dosing garlic? :~
 
I understand now why people are being skeptical about garlic working. If I'm correct, garlic was scientifically proven to be a bacterial infection fighter, but I guess that doesn't mean it will 100% surely work if you dose it to a fish tank. IMO, it's worth a shot. Experience will probably vary from person to person since no two tank setups are the same, but that doesn't mean it will or will not work. I won't rely solely on garlic to try and fix the problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to things that might help the fish other than QT, which I won't be able to setup?
 
iCon said:
JAR said:
I don't think garlic will hurt. As a matter of fact, I like it on my pizza.
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Umm.. Hello. How about on your fries!? :D
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Silly me! of course!
And I can't remember the last time I had any white spots on me.
Well there was this one time in college... but I was not in to garlic then.
 
JAR said:
iCon said:
JAR said:
I don't think garlic will hurt. As a matter of fact, I like it on my pizza.
Click to expand...



Umm.. Hello. How about on your fries!? :D
Click to expand...

Silly me! of course!
And I can't remember the last time I had any white spots on me.
Well there was this one time in college... but I was not in to garlic then.
Click to expand...


Yessssir. I can smell them already. Usually happens around this time of year. I need to come up with opening day tickets...Or.. I may just take the plunge on season tickets. Would have been a deal maker of Boston or NY were coming to town
 
My thoughts:

1) Garlic might make him eat better. That at least seems real.
But not as a dose. More as a food soak.
Like on fries - Joking aside, it is the same concept.
But sounds like the fish is already eating, so probably no big help there.

2) Put the fish in a clear container, take him to the LFS, and ask
what is wrong with him and what to do. (Unless LFS=Petco or Walmart)
If you do not get a half decent answer, go to a different store.
* Also allows you to take a better picture, and post here *

3) Depending on the disease, medicated dips or oral antibiotics might help.
Can be tricky to administer though.
And has to be the right thing, or can do more harm than good.

4) Set up a mini temporary QT tank.
All you need is a 5 gallon buckets, and air pump, and a small heater.
Preferably with some cut up PVC pipes for hiding in.
Set it up with water from main tank.
Replace 50% of the water every morning + evening.
(Less/more depending on size of fish, test for ammonia)
Basically, no filters or anything. Rely totally on water changes instead.
 
Euphyllia said:
... If I'm correct, garlic was scientifically proven to be a bacterial infection fighter...
Click to expand...
The only scientific test I know of was using the un-diluted oil from freshly crushed raw garlic, directly on bacteria.
(Allyl sulfates being the key I guess)
But bottled processed extract, extremely diluted in a fish tank, is not the same thing.

Perhaps more importantly : If it did work, everything in your tank would die!
Really. :((
Remember that absolutely critical bacteria that metabolizes ammonia/nitrite??
An anti-bacterial like sulfates would kill that as well.
If all that died, your tank would be loaded with ammonia in short order.
 
Garlic has not been shown to have an efficacy in saltwater tanks. Using it to fight infection is not worth a shot becaue it won't help while actual medicine will help. Even if you dose it and the infection goes away, you can't say it was the garlic that helped. Someone posted a link to one of the skeptical articles (Thanks!) - take a read and see if it clear anything up.

If it is a bacterial infection, treat with a broad spectum antibiotic from the LFS. Almost any of them will do, and not really knowing what you are treating for makes it hard to be specific.
 
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