LED fixture for a 20 gallon rimless....

[ryanjiang]

Here is Sanjay's plot, it looks to me at 24" single unit produces roughly 14"X12" area with 200+ PAR, and I think this is NOT for latest generation AI. I assume there is improvement with newer technology.

This is Gasman059 's tank with 6 prev. generation of AI, his tank is 60" X 30" X 25", the surface area is 6 times bigger than Manny's 20G, and he is running 50% white only, it looks good coverage to me. If you don't believe this is the source of content from RC

 

[ryanjiang]

BTW Sanjay's test article on advance aquarist.

 

[GreshamH]

So in other words you are just relaying on what others have seen, you've never actually seen it yourself?

 

[ryanjiang]

I admit I did not see the equipment in person, but if this is must when you research an equipment? Do reading other's experience & article with data count? I do not have luxury to see many equipments in action that I am interested in. For this case I was considering the AI once and did lot of research on it, there are definitely more than single picture out there as reference.

 

[GreshamH]

For the dollar amount you will invest in LED systems, yes, IMO/IME actually seeing the unit in action is a must. AI units are accessible through out the Bay Area, just ask and I am sure reefers will let you see them. They also were viewable at the last BAYMAC and will be again at this years. Neptune's had them on display recently when Richard from Sunlight Supply did an open house there.

 

[ryanjiang]

I agree. For my case, I would have to see it in person before I buy 6 units, but I was not that close to pull the trigger

For Manny's case I just feel like if I am in his shoes, go for single AI unit is safer bet at least it will provide some area with intensive PAR for acros. 3 or 4 PAR38 are pretty close to the price of an AI unit and you don't have the same controllbility, plus AI is much scalable if he will upgrade in future.

Frankly speaking it is still hard to believe a unit like AI can not light up 17" X 17" nicely, at least to the eyes (I am not saying the whole area has light intensive enough to grow acro) maybe the unit was not hang high enough when you saw it?

 

[GreshamH]

LED's are super directional. It's not hard for me to believe it at all, especially after seeing a majority of the LED fixtures on the market first hand.

I have yet to find a unit that has good spread and good PAR all in one. IMO/IME that is one of the biggest downfalls of current LED fixtures.

 

[rygh]

LED's are super directional. It's not hard for me to believe it at all, especially after seeing a majority of the LED fixtures on the market first hand.

I have yet to find a unit that has good spread and good PAR all in one. IMO/IME that is one of the biggest downfalls of current LED fixtures.

Looks like you may have to build your own.
It is a not-super-complex trade-off on cost, optics, and fixture size.
You can get exactly what you want, even including adjusting rate of PAR drop-off with water depth.

IMO: I see the biggest downfall to current LED fixtures as color, but it is possible that I am overly picky on that.

 

[GreshamH]

I think you have me confused with some one that wants LEDs as his main lighting I'll use them for actinics but feel they are simply not "there" yet for me to switch out my halides.

 

[eldiablosrt8]

i can tell you i get growth n good color under both....but my t5 setup blows growing times against my leds by far i get X2 growth in most stuff imo.....

i love my leds for my display n it keeps the sps i want so i dont trip, lol

 

[GreshamH]

I don't doubt they work for people, it's just not "there" yet for my taste I have seen some awesome LED only tanks and I am impressed with what they did.

 

[ryanjiang]

i can tell you i get growth n good color under both....but my t5 setup blows growing times against my leds by far i get X2 growth in most stuff imo.....l

Kind of strange, somebody measured and single 48" reefbrite all-blue beat the par of single 48" ATI blue plus on individual reflector. Maybe it is different story when you run multiple like the way of T5 fixture, yet to see the PAR measure of that.

 

[GreshamH]

i can tell you i get growth n good color under both....but my t5 setup blows growing times against my leds by far i get X2 growth in most stuff imo.....l

Kind of strange, somebody measured and single 48" reefbrite all-blue beat the par of single 48" ATI blue plus on individual reflector. Maybe it is different story when you run multiple like the way of T5 fixture, yet to see the PAR measure of that.

Several of us could not replicate that test. I still want to try it again but ATM I don't have any Rb strips. The ones I had are being used and are now like 8 months old

 

[ryanjiang]

I don't doubt they work for people, it's just not "there" yet for my taste I have seen some awesome LED only tanks and I am impressed with what they did.

There is a thread on RC dedicated for LED only SPS tank, some real nice tanks and SPS looks amazing in them.

A past TOTM (forgot how many issues ago?) is a LED only tank, and he keep ton of acros.

Any LED fixture has to compromise between spread and intensity/penetration, it is hard to find one best model fit for anyone's requirement for lighting. After all it is about cost, for example if the price of AI-like unit drop enough that I don't feel too much pain to pay for each unit to cover a 12"X12" area, I will go for it in a heartbeat.

 

[GreshamH]

I don't doubt they work for people, it's just not "there" yet for my taste I have seen some awesome LED only tanks and I am impressed with what they did.

There is a thread on RC dedicated for LED only SPS tank, some real nice tanks and SPS looks amazing in them.

A past TOTM (forgot how many issues ago?) is a LED only tank, and he keep ton of acros.

Any LED fixture has to compromise between spread and intensity/penetration, it is hard to find one best model fit for anyone's requirement for lighting. After all it is about cost, for example if the price of AI-like unit drop enough that I don't feel too much pain to pay for each unit to cover a 12"X12" area, I will go for it in a heartbeat.

???? are you easily confused by my posts? I did not say anything about them not being good for reef tanks :lol: I said the direct opposite.

The current state of technology and builds is simply not to my liking. Please do not feel you need to defend LEDs to me, there is no need especially when I stated I don't doubt they work for people. I too do a lot of web searching and have read those threads and seen those TOTM's

Numerous LED fixture makers and distributors are friends of mine. I get to see proto-types, hear back end information, etc. I'm not your average hobbyist

I'

 

[eldiablosrt8]

i dont defend leds.............

i feel my t5 tanks are growing better but as far as looks i wouldnt trade my leds,LOL

 

[ryanjiang]

i can tell you i get growth n good color under both....but my t5 setup blows growing times against my leds by far i get X2 growth in most stuff imo.....l

Kind of strange, somebody measured and single 48" reefbrite all-blue beat the par of single 48" ATI blue plus on individual reflector. Maybe it is different story when you run multiple like the way of T5 fixture, yet to see the PAR measure of that.

Several of us could not replicate that test. I still want to try it again but ATM I don't have any Rb strips. The ones I had are being used and are now like 8 months old

Are they comparable at least? Does it provide better par on narrow area direct under and lose on the outer area?

Thanks for the info cause I have had thought to replace some T5s in my upgrade 2X 250W + 4 XT5 Giesemann fixture with RBs, now I would not even bother.

 

[eldiablosrt8]

reef brites at supplemtation is better than t5 anyday IMO.....

i have 6 reefbrites crammed in my hood and they work awesome over my 120 but unlike a small fixture i dont have to worry about gaps bettween fixtures and only a tad bit of led spotting..... i could possibly put 2 more in but it would have a little blled on my front and rear glass possibly

 

[ryanjiang]

I don't doubt they work for people, it's just not "there" yet for my taste I have seen some awesome LED only tanks and I am impressed with what they did.

There is a thread on RC dedicated for LED only SPS tank, some real nice tanks and SPS looks amazing in them.

A past TOTM (forgot how many issues ago?) is a LED only tank, and he keep ton of acros.

Any LED fixture has to compromise between spread and intensity/penetration, it is hard to find one best model fit for anyone's requirement for lighting. After all it is about cost, for example if the price of AI-like unit drop enough that I don't feel too much pain to pay for each unit to cover a 12"X12" area, I will go for it in a heartbeat.

???? are you easily confused by my posts? I did not say anything about them not being good for reef tanks :lol: I said the direct opposite.

The current state of technology and builds is simply not to my liking. Please do not feel you need to defend LEDs to me, there is no need especially when I stated I don't doubt they work for people. I too do a lot of web searching and have read those threads and seen those TOTM's

Numerous LED fixture makers and distributors are friends of mine. I get to see proto-types, hear back end information, etc. I'm not your average hobbyist

I'

Did I sound defending? I was just agreeing with your points.

If you are not happy with me as average hobbyist to agree with your points or had discussion with insider like you, that is fine. Really sorry for bothering and have a good night.

 

[mavjoy]

For Manny's case I just feel like if I am in his shoes, go for single AI unit is safer bet at least it will provide some area with intensive PAR for acros. 3 or 4 PAR38 are pretty close to the price of an AI unit and you don't have the same controllbility, plus AI is much scalable if he will upgrade in future

Wow! such awesome response..I like it. Par 38's are good but what Ryan mentioned, I have to get at least 3-4 of them plus the hanging kit ,and this will be close to a single AI unit. Tec even offered me to try out the AI unit he got in the shop, but did not go for it but might borrow it sometime and see how it looks. The controllability of AI really is a BIG+ for me. I haven't seen AI full lit yet but I'll try to get a picture of it when I stop by Blue Ocean this week.