Cali Kid Corals

New to BAR, and new to the Bay Area...

Hello all,
I'm new to BAR, and new to the Bay Area in general. I come from the frigid cold Canadian Prairies, and have been into reef aquaria since 2005.

From 2005-2009 I ran a 140g mixed reef aquarium with a reasonable amount of success.
IMG_4061.JPG

At that point, graduate studies and an active 2 year old meant that I just didn't have the time to keep the tank up, and I sold everything off.
From 2009 until the end of 2013 I have played around with mixed success with a Solana 34g. Just prior to leaving Winnipeg in December, I was in the process of taking another effort at getting the Solana where I really wanted it, but fate had it that I got a job in the Bay Area. I sold off the Solana for a decent price as it wasn't exactly an easy thing to relocate....

In contrast to before where my family and I lived in a 3 bedroom house, we're now in a spacious 2 bedroom apartment.

Now that I'm here, and starting to get settled in, it's time to think about my next tank. Unfortunately, my leasing company doesn't allow tanks bigger than 10g in the apartment. HOWEVER, I am on the main floor, and have a huge cement patio.... I've already got thoughts running through my head of how I could set up a 50-90g tank on the patio.

Anyway, that's my story! I did manage to bring along a big rubbermaid tote with a load of powerheads, some Tunze Streams, and a couple larger tanks from my old tank. I'm hoping some of these items can be traded/sold now that I'm in an area where there may actually be a market for them. Heh.

Tyler
 
Welcome.

Yes the weather is a little different than Winnipeg! Depending on where you live in the BA, an outside tank might be possible. You might also see if taking out extra insurance might expand the indoor tank limits.

Just the three words, 'Winnipeg in December', gave me the chills! :)
 
Wow nice tank, and to be slapped in the face with a 10g maximum requirement, that sucks. I don't know if I'd put a tank on the patio personally. Regardless of where I lived in the bay area, you're asking for very high power bills just to keep it warm or cool, while there are nice areas no where is "tropical nice" where you can enjoy 70-80s year round. Now you might get away with it if you could some how build an insulated greenhouse around it but that might catch the eye of the landlord and get shot down in a hurry.

I might just run a 10g... or MANY 10g tanks :D

Out of curiosity did your lease specifically outline the size of the tank? Or did you ask and were told the maximum size?
 
Welcome.

Yes the weather is a little different than Winnipeg! Depending on where you live in the BA, an outside tank might be possible. You might also see if taking out extra insurance might expand the indoor tank limits.

Just the three words, 'Winnipeg in December', gave me the chills! :)

I'm eating lunch outdoors at work most days in Jan/Feb, so I'd say this is paradise compared to Winnipeg haha.

That is true I might be able to get more insurance to have a larger tank.

I'm in Cupertino. My patio is North facing and the balcony above shelters the patio doors nicely. My thought would be to put the tank right up to the part of the patio door that doesn't open.

Tyler

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Welcome! Look forward to your tank ;)

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Thanks! Really happy to be somewhere there is a larger reef community. Winnipeg didn't have much in that area. I was also crushed when the former best Lfs (swc) focused more on being a distributor and then got slapped with huge illegal importation fines.

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Wow nice tank, and to be slapped in the face with a 10g maximum requirement, that sucks. I don't know if I'd put a tank on the patio personally. Regardless of where I lived in the bay area, you're asking for very high power bills just to keep it warm or cool, while there are nice areas no where is "tropical nice" where you can enjoy 70-80s year round. Now you might get away with it if you could some how build an insulated greenhouse around it but that might catch the eye of the landlord and get shot down in a hurry.

I might just run a 10g... or MANY 10g tanks :D

Out of curiosity did your lease specifically outline the size of the tank? Or did you ask and were told the maximum size?

Amazingly, yes the lease specifically says 10g max. I will need to speak to them about it.

My only worry about going for a bigger tank indoor is the humidity. When I ran my 140g I had to put in a whole home hrv to keep the indoor humidity sane. I don't have that option in an apartment and i suspect running the ac or a dehumidifier would be costly. Unfortunately I don't have a place with a central heating /cooling system.

I do realize keeping a tank stable outdoors would be a challenge. This is why I'm still in the concept phase. I know people keep cold water reefs stable by building them out of thick acrylic, so I'm curious if building the tank out of thick glass or acrylic would help keep trips stable. Couple that with an insulated stand and maybe it'd work? I'm going to have to do some research on how well this would work. I'm sure it's possible to calculate the heating and cooling requirements.

My other thought is I could have some foam panels I can put around the tank during cold or hot spells....

Dunno.

Haha well they said I am limited to 10g, but I don't think they really limited to how many 10g tanks...



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That is a beautiful tank you had, nice work. Sucks about the 10g tank limit but I might have a remedy...

This is what I would do;

-Big stand, way bigger than a 10g
-35g DT inside stand
-10g sump on top

Winning :D
 
That is a beautiful tank you had, nice work. Sucks about the 10g tank limit but I might have a remedy...

This is what I would do;

-Big stand, way bigger than a 10g
-35g DT inside stand
-10g sump on top

Winning :D

Haha, I like the way you think.

When they told me I could only have a BBQ that runs on 1lb cylinders, I immediately thought of a solution where I manifold 20 x 1lb tanks together. :) Haha.
 
So, I did a bit of research to try and figure out what my heating requirements would be for a tank outdoors.
I'm assuming a 2' x 2' cube for my calculations.

I found this handy heat transfer lesson, which happened to handle figuring out the heat transfer from an aquarium into air:
http://elvis.rowan.edu/rquarium/labs/hs/Intro to Heat Transfer High School Instructor's guide.docx

Based on that, I made a Google Docs spreadsheet which illustrates the heat transfer from the tank to the air:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av_uYEJsqzJedEthUS1JSElnMzFBRVh6YjlLWDNid3c&usp=sharing

What did I figure out?
Assuming tank temp is 25.6C (78F)...
Assuming I'm only caring about the 4 side panels, because the stand and canopy can be better insulated with rigid foam insulation.....

For an acrylic tank:
1/2" thick acrylic - Air Temp 0C (32F) - 67W of heat loss
1" thick acrylic - Air Temp 0C (32F) - 60W of heat loss

1/2" thick acrylic - Air Temp 10C (50F) - 41W of heat loss
1" thick acrylic - Air Temp 10C (50F) - 37W of heat loss

1/2" thick acrylic - Air Temp 20C (68F) - 15W of heat loss
1" thick acrylic - Air Temp 20C (68F) - 13W of heat loss

1/2" thick acrylic - Air Temp 35C (95F) - 25W of heat GAIN
1" thick acrylic - Air Temp 35C (95F) - 22W of heat GAIN

1/2" thick acrylic - Air Temp 40C (104F) - 38W of heat GAIN
1" thick acrylic - Air Temp 40C (104F) - 34W of heat GAIN

For a glass tank:
1/2" thick glass - Air Temp 0C (32F) - 74W of heat loss
1" thick glass - Air Temp 0C (32F) - 72W of heat loss

1/2" thick glass- Air Temp 10C (50F) - 45W of heat loss
1" thick glass- Air Temp 10C (50F) - 44W of heat loss

1/2" thick glass- Air Temp 20C (68F) - 16W of heat loss
1" thick glass- Air Temp 20C (68F) - 16W of heat loss

1/2" thick glass- Air Temp 35C (95F) - 27W of heat GAIN
1" thick glass- Air Temp 35C (95F) - 26W of heat GAIN

1/2" thick glass- Air Temp 40C (104F) - 41W of heat GAIN
1" thick glass- Air Temp 40C (104F) - 40W of heat GAIN

IF my calculations are accurate, it looks like the heat loss would be quite manageable during cold snaps if I was to cover 3 side of the tank with removable rigid foam panels, leaving just the side facing the patio window exposed. I expect I could probably do the same during the hottest months and manage the cooling demands primarily through evaporation and auto top off.

Now, this of course doesn't take into account the heat loss through the canopy and stand, so I'll need to figure this out as well.

I'm also going to have to do further research to see if these formulae are even the right ones for my scenario. :)
 
I just moved to the bay area this past August from Texas. You've got to love the weather here right? :)
You're pretty brave for even thinking about putting a tank outside! It was 35 F this December in Berkeley at the coldest. I think it is hard enough keeping a reef tank stable without drastic annual and diurnal temperature swings surrounding the tank. Of course, a big enough heater and chiller/fan and ATO should make it possible...

Good luck!
 
I just moved to the bay area this past August from Texas. You've got to love the weather here right? :)
You're pretty brave for even thinking about putting a tank outside! It was 35 F this December in Berkeley at the coldest. I think it is hard enough keeping a reef tank stable without drastic annual and diurnal temperature swings surrounding the tank. Of course, a big enough heater and chiller/fan and ATO should make it possible...

Good luck!

I'm absolutely loving the weather here. Wow is all I can say. Can't believe I wasted so much of my life stuck indoors because of the cold.

I'm still in the concept phase for this tank. I have a nice sheltered spot that won't get direct sunlight. So heat shouldn't be too bad. For the worst of the cold I'm thinking a well insulated stand and canopy, and removable "storm window" like panels for the tank. Sounds like a fun challenge.

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