Reef nutrition

Coral and bacteria

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Today I saw a thread on R2R where the op who happened to run zeovit (zeovit system is bacterial based system where you keep adding bacteria and food) making the case that sps coral need bacteria because it eats bacteria, the thread from there spiraled in to,
-we need diverse bacteria so coral eat it,
- sps feed on bacteria
- you have to add and dos bacteria..
- somoem posted this video as evidence coral eat bacteria
.

It wasbit strange to me. I also run zeovit but I really think the OP is confusing the role of nitrafying bacteria in our system with coral nutrients requirments.
Anyone share this sentiment that coral eats bacteria? I think this is wrong statment and no scientific evidence I have seen in the past that suggest coral actually eat bacteria that's why we need it.

Also on the YouTube video(min 18) the guy kinda make similar suggestion and his evidence that coral entrust on live rocks not on dry rocks because live rocks have funa bacteria..
I disagree and my counter argument is how quickly frags encrusted on plugs that have zero live organisms on it before we glue coral to the base. I also start every single system with 80 to 90% dry rocks and once system established withen a month or so, coral encrusted on all rocks alike...

Anyone have heared of such concept or have more insights on such claim?

The sad thing on that thread, people are going to try zeovit just because the op is on zeovit without really understanding it well which is guarantee to crash an established system. Zeovit is program that needs attention to details and correct understanding of the diffrent products on it otherwise, zeovit forum filled with ppl who crashed their systems just because they saw a nice tank with zeovit and jumped on the program without learning it...

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Rostato

Supporting Member
Yeah I can’t understand how bacteria is what’s feeding the coral.

My understanding is the bacteria is feeding on all of the food that is uneaten by corals.

This enables you to feed more. Hence having more food available for the coral to feed on and more bacteria to take care of any food not used by corals.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I believe so..this is what the nitrificstion (aka cycle) is. Nitrafying bacteria use light and salinity diffrence between water and their cells to proccess ammonia no2 and no3...

I think the op is confusing himself or not explaining how zeovit work correctly...
Zeovit simply is 3 parts
- Zeolites rocks that basically observe ammonia. These zeolites are used in water treatment facilities for similar reason.
- bacteria and bacterial food(carbon) addition. So left over ammonia is processed to no2 and no3
- coral food(lots of it) cause zeovit system is very poor nutrients due to the first 2 parts above..
So the bacteria we dose(zeobac, and the carbon zeostart) is nitrafying bacteria strains that's all. Zeovit gets you to avoid the long maturing period on most part and get tou not to worry too much on nutrients where you can hit a biological imbalance when more or less nutrients get added to the system since you constantly dose bacteria.

The problem is when ppl adapt this system on mature tanks and not follow instructions, they can drop their nutrients dramatically and shock coral, or start a never ending cyano and diatom cycles.



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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Wait, i thought the article is saying bacteria and coral have more of symbiotic relationship not really eating it..
Its talking about the zooxanthellae relationship with bacteria which is know and not disputed..
But not eating it...is it?

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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
This is great article btw, I read long time ago, so once to read it again..
I see some of the argument the article is making...

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euod

Supporting Member
Yes, associated with corals.
It's happening in corals, too besides in sand, rocks and water column
 
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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
I see how it is. Us common folk wouldn’t know about this sort of thing. ;)
Ha ha ha. No no I did not mean that. Am calling for more people to discuss this that's all.
Rich is heavy hitter so it's fair to ask his openion

And btw I myself is commoner and ignorant that is trying to learn ha ha

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t7rido

Guest
Very interesting topic!!! Newbies like me would love to get some reefing knowledge as such.

I recently bought some frags from a local gentleman who had a stunning sps tank; amazing colors. He did tell me the same thing here, “feed sps with bacteria”. He tipped me buying Brightwell microBacter7 because it’s cheaper to feed (hopefully he’s in here and speak up).


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ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Very interesting topic!!! Newbies like me would love to get some reefing knowledge as such.

I recently bought some frags from a local gentleman who had a stunning sps tank; amazing colors. He did tell me the same thing here, “feed sps with bacteria”. He tipped me buying Brightwell microBacter7 because it’s cheaper to feed (hopefully he’s in here and speak up).


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U see that is my fear and what happen in the reef2reef forum.
Just because the op or the user you referring to happen to run bacterial dose system, don't mean if you dosed bacteria u will duplicate the success.
In zeovit, if you just dose the bacterial product which what that thread is spiraling to, you will deal with cyano, algae and problems..been there.
For zeovit example you need to learn the system, use the zeolites so it help with majority of the ammonia extraction, dose carbon to sustain the zeovit bacteria...etx.
Also with zeovit starting on fresh system is completly diffrent than starting in mature systems. They have special instruction how to start on mature systems that is completly diffrent to the fresh start. Am very active on zeovit forum and I assure you there are hundreds and hundreds of users who came to that forum over the years crying uncle cause they crashed their already mature system cause they did random things..
I just worry of the impact of threads like this on avrage reefers who will seek silver bullets and kill coral...
I am still trying to understand the merit in that argument cause the article referenced I'm this thread earlier do make such argument...kinda...

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rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
The generally accepted fact that Corals eat bacteria does not at all infer that adding more bacteria is good for corals.

Humans can eat dirt and it actually seems to help a bit if you are long term undernourished.
So should we all add lots of dirt to our diet?
:)

My opinions:

Our tanks are loaded with bacteria, and they are usually nutrient or surface limited.
Any bacteria you add will simply replace some that are already there, so no net overall effect.

Feeding bacteria (carbon dosing) does help reduce nutrients, and if it helps coral eat, so much the better.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
The generally accepted fact that Corals eat bacteria does not at all infer that adding more bacteria is good for corals.

Humans can eat dirt and it actually seems to help a bit if you are long term undernourished.
So should we all add lots of dirt to our diet?
:)

My opinions:

Our tanks are loaded with bacteria, and they are usually nutrient or surface limited.
Any bacteria you add will simply replace some that are already there, so no net overall effect.

Feeding bacteria (carbon dosing) does help reduce nutrients, and if it helps coral eat, so much the better.

"Any bacteria you add will simply replace some that are already there, so no net overall effect. "
But then how do you explain overdosing bacteria can trigger algae blooms?
Many examples myself included have shown over dosing bacteria will trigger algae blooms which I take it as its triggering a biological filtration imbalance or what used to be called mini cycle..
Are these bacteria feeding other things?


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rygh

Webmaster
Staff member
"Any bacteria you add will simply replace some that are already there, so no net overall effect. "
But then how do you explain overdosing bacteria can trigger algae blooms?
Many examples myself included have shown over dosing bacteria will trigger algae blooms which I take it as its triggering a biological filtration imbalance or what used to be called mini cycle..
Are these bacteria feeding other things?


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Well... you add a ton of bacteria, not enough to eat, so they die. End up feeding the algae.
Or maybe they replace the normal denitrifying bacteria, ammmonia spikes, feeding algae.
Also many bacterial products also contain enzymes and other carbon sources to feed bacteria. Those might cause blooms.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Well... you add a ton of bacteria, not enough to eat, so they die. End up feeding the algae.
Or maybe they replace the normal denitrifying bacteria, ammmonia spikes, feeding algae.
Also many bacterial products also contain enzymes and other carbon sources to feed bacteria. Those might cause blooms.
Yeh,might be the first or combination of both.
I used to think adding too many strains of bacteria you end up creating competition with nitrifiers and do harm not good.
Dr. Tim talked about this in details and he said do not do it..
I think you are right..
Just another reason am against blindly g adding bacteria from diffrent bottles like vibrent or others...

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JVU

BOD
Staff member
Perhaps the most important take-home message of that interesting article is that bacteria are everywhere, on every surface, in every drop of water, in and around every animal, and that there is no way to prevent it. Bacteria in the reef environment (and every other environment) far outnumber all other types of organisms, including everything we think of as being in our tanks. It is possible that some bacteria may be better food sources than others for coral, but we have no idea which (or how to promote them). So while it is interesting that corals eat bacteria, it isn’t really something we can use to our advantage, and also probably isn’t something to worry about.
 

ofzakaria

Supporting Member
Perhaps the most important take-home message of that interesting article is that bacteria are everywhere, on every surface, in every drop of water, in and around every animal, and that there is no way to prevent it. Bacteria in the reef environment (and every other environment) far outnumber all other types of organisms, including everything we think of as being in our tanks. It is possible that some bacteria may be better food sources than others for coral, but we have no idea which (or how to promote them). So while it is interesting that corals eat bacteria, it isn’t really something we can use to our advantage, and also probably isn’t something to worry about.
Well said

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