High Tide Aquatics

DC main pump or AC pump

Macroman

Macroman

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I bought a system off a BAR (55 g corner curved face), he was using a 960 gph Rio but it had died. I took apart and it was too far gone to repair. The although the motor worked the impeller, shaft and part of the housing were shot.
One of the best rated AC pumps in this gph rating is the Haartz Fluval Sea SP2. Some recommend the Sicce which is what eshopps uses in their skimmers (Syncra 4.0).
The base on this tank is an odd shape and not very much room. I have a eshopps refrugium/sump S-75. The sump area is not very wide. It is only 3.5 inches wide. Some pumps will not fit into the area.
Does any one have experience with a DC pump for this range (~1000 gph)? Does anyone have experience with the Current eFlux pumps? (Vista CA). The DC allows the change of the speed of the pump. The EFlux pumps have a simple rheostat where as the Hygger pumps have an electronic controller.
 
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I recommend DC pumps. Get a little bigger than you need, makes it quieter, more efficient, and gives you options later.

I’m using RO Varios pumps for my return and skimmer and they’ve been good and reliable.

I use a small IM MightyJet pump for my UV sterilizer and carbon reactor, which I’ve only had for 6 mo or so but has also been good (and is a lot cheaper).
 
DC pumps are great. Controllable and power efficient.

But the things is:
A lot of the manufacturers get the base motor section from Jaebo. Just rebranded, and maybe some plastic tweaks.
They improve the electronics a bit and give you real customer service and a warranty.
Interestingly, for new motor designs, Jaebo is often ahead. Like better ceramic shafts, impeller tweaks, etc.
I am not recommending buying Jaebo. But I would say think twice before paying a lot more for certain brands.
 
Coral reefer said:
Why are you trying to push 18x tank volume with your return?
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Coral, I am just setting up my first reef tank. It has been 25 years since we had a tank and these were fresh water. We raised African cichilds.
This Rio was the unit that came with the system and served for the tank for a number of years, but I am changing the sump and adding a chaeto refugium.
I thought rule of thumb was 10X and most go some higher. For a DC pump I am looking at ~1000 gph with the ability to dial up and down. Am I wrong?
 
rygh said:
But the things is:
A lot of the manufacturers get the base motor section from Jaebo. Just rebranded, and maybe some plastic tweaks.
They improve the electronics a bit and give you real customer service and a warranty.
Interestingly, for new motor designs, Jaebo is often ahead. Like better ceramic shafts, impeller tweaks, etc.
I am not recommending buying Jaebo. But I would say think twice before paying a lot more for certain brands.
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure I buy this. Now they may (probably) get similar production runs from the factory that makes a lot of these pumps, they simply do not go through the more extensive product to market route as other companies do (i.e. testing, more substantial packaging, better electronics/controllers/power supplies, etc) which makes it seem like they're being "innovators" but I also feel like spitting my coffee out when I see anything that suggests Jebao being some sort of "innovator" (and I don't even drink coffee)
 
Macroman said:
Coral, I am just setting up my first reef tank. It has been 25 years since we had a tank and these were fresh water. We raised African cichilds.
This Rio was the unit that came with the system and served for the tank for a number of years, but I am changing the sump and adding a chaeto refugium.
I thought rule of thumb was 10X and most go some higher. For a DC pump I am looking at ~1000 gph with the ability to dial up and down. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Rules of thumb go all over the place as far as water flow. Is 30x tank turn over really necessary? Or you just need to have the right type of of flow. That said, I've seen very successful tanks not do any more turnover than what the skimmer pulls in, under the idea of if your skimmer does 2x your tanks volume turn over, what benefit is moving 10x the water by it? Basically there are different ways you can do things, some people still use the return pump as a significant amount of flow for the tank, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't feel like you NEED to do that amount of flow to be successful.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Rules of thumb go all over the place as far as water flow. Is 30x tank turn over really necessary? Or you just need to have the right type of of flow. That said, I've seen very successful tanks not do any more turnover than what the skimmer pulls in, under the idea of if your skimmer does 2x your tanks volume turn over, what benefit is moving 10x the water by it? Basically there are different ways you can do things, some people still use the return pump as a significant amount of flow for the tank, and there's nothing wrong with that. But don't feel like you NEED to do that amount of flow to be successful.
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The trouble is unless you measure the flow accurately you have no idea what the pump is putting out. You may buy a 500 gph pump and only be getting 300 gph. Most Reefers I have talked to say you need to oversize some.
I am not sure what you mean you do not need to do more than the skimmer is capable of. The protein skimmer is separate pump and return. If you mean weir then yes there is no point in over flowing your weir. The volume through the tank is limited by the capacity of the weir. I am assuming the tank was OK with the 900 gph Rio as this was what was working. I think it would be good to have a unit I could dial between 300 gph and 1000 gph. Do you think I could aim lower? I really like the IM units but the max flow is just 538 gph.
 
Macroman said:
The trouble is unless you measure the flow accurately you have no idea what the pump is putting out. You may buy a 500 gph pump and only be getting 300 gph. Most Reefers I have talked to say you need to oversize some.
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Oh absolutely, which is why people are suggesting DC pumps because you can always dial down a DC pump for what you need. I was simply going on that number that was thrown out above of 10x your tank volume, and usually if you're going to do that then you're basing it on "real" flow to the tank. Look at the head pressure diagrams of whatever pump you have, every 90 degree bend is another foot, etc. Not just get a pump that's rated for 10x your tank volume at 0 foot head.

I am not sure what you mean you do not need to do more than the skimmer is capable of. The protein skimmer is separate pump and return.
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It's simply a school of thought that allows you to not "waste" water movement, not saying it's "the right way" to do things just a different idea. As an example lets say your skimmer pump can pull 2 times the tank volume of water through it every hour, well if you're pushing 10x the water through your return pump then 80% of that water flowing through the sump is not getting skimmed out because for every 10x volume only 2x of that can be pulled by the skimmer leaving 8x flowing just taking a trip back to your display. Now obviously it isn't as simplistic of a view as that as water is mixing together, but there is some truth to the idea that some of that water going through your sump is effectively "unskimmed" so unless you have a need for that water movement why do so much.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I'm not quite sure I buy this. Now they may (probably) get similar production runs from the factory that makes a lot of these pumps, they simply do not go through the more extensive product to market route as other companies do (i.e. testing, more substantial packaging, better electronics/controllers/power supplies, etc) which makes it seem like they're being "innovators" but I also feel like spitting my coffee out when I see anything that suggests Jebao being some sort of "innovator" (and I don't even drink coffee)
Click to expand...

It does seem weird, yes. But...

Key : Who can do the serious engineering???

Companies like Reef Octopus cannot afford more than a couple of engineers for the whole company.
Their independent volume is too low, and they only make incremental amounts on sales.
They are a more of a distributor in this case.
And what are the odds those engineers would be experts in pump and motor technology, and have the time to build and test different designs?
No, they can perhaps tweak a few components. Use a slightly better cheap chinese power supply for example.
But I really doubt they are doing any real innovation.

The way it works is usually an engineering collaboration between the actual manufacturer and the major distributors.
Jaebo by volume is likely the largest distributor by far.

So yes .... Jaebo is probably really driving the innovation.

ALSO:
I read it on the internet a while back. Meaning it is quite possibly totally untrue or I remember it wrong.
But my impression: was that Jaebo was a subsidiary of the pump manufacturer, or the other way around.
The pump manufacturer decided they had to sell it themselves directly to public to get the product going.
 
rygh said:
It does seem weird, yes. But...

Key : Who can do the serious engineering???

Companies like Reef Octopus cannot afford more than a couple of engineers for the whole company.
Their independent volume is too low, and they only make incremental amounts on sales.
They are a more of a distributor in this case.
And what are the odds those engineers would be experts in pump and motor technology, and have the time to build and test different designs?
No, they can perhaps tweak a few components. Use a slightly better cheap chinese power supply for example.
But I really doubt they are doing any real innovation.

The way it works is usually an engineering collaboration between the actual manufacturer and the major distributors.
Jaebo by volume is likely the largest distributor by far.

So yes .... Jaebo is probably really driving the innovation.

ALSO:
I read it on the internet a while back. Meaning it is quite possibly totally untrue or I remember it wrong.
But my impression: was that Jaebo was a subsidiary of the pump manufacturer, or the other way around.
The pump manufacturer decided they had to sell it themselves directly to public to get the product going.
Click to expand...
Then why is the consensus that they are the worst? What you say sounds logical but doesn’t seem to match experience.

I haven’t owned any of their pumps so I have no personal input, but all the discussions I see focus on them being the lowest quality with poor reliability and support, but also the cheapest so still worth it to a lot of people.
 
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