Kessil

High Magnesium

pixelpixi

pixelpixi

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What sort of problems have you guys experienced with high magnesium levels? I've lost several acros recently and it was not long after raising my mag levels in an attempt to combat some bryopsis that popped up in my tank. I also saw some tissue recession on one of my monti caps and another monti cap go into rapid decline (though that seemed to start before increasing mag.)

For the last day or so my two toadstools have seemed a little freaked out, though they seem to retract and look unhappy on a regular basis for no reason anyway. The rest of my corals, clam, fish, and inverts all seem fine.

Other things that have changed recently:
- started running GFO and carbon in a reactor
- added some iron supplement
- put a new sand bed in (the old one went out a couple months ago)

The other parameters I've tested (salinity, calcium, alkalinity, temperature, pH, and nitrate) are all normal. So I'm thinking it's probably the magnesium but possibly contamination from the sand? Before adding the sand I washed it with a garden hose, drained off as much water as possible, and added a little Prime to combat any residual chloramine. I've been doing frequent water changes since the problem started. That seems to be helping.

Any thoughts or suggestions?
 
WOw 12 views and no one even atempted helping you :(

How high is high? #'s are needed here, both before and after. How quickly you went up and where you dosed it (and what you dosed) would help as well.

How much sand and what type (size, etc)?

How large of a GFO reactor and what GFO? Whats your flow through rate on the reactor?
 
Mag started out on the high side of normal, around 1500ppm. I raised it to approx 1800 over a day using epsom salts dissolved in RO/DI water. Dosed into the sump.

Sand is 40lbs of fine aragonite.

The GFO is the pellets from bulk reef supply. I have one of their reactors filled about 1/3 with GFO and 1/2 with carbon.

I just did another water change. I'll test mag again in a bit and see what I'm back to.

Thanks Gresham!
 
I could believe the toadstool got upset with the magnesium. They seem to do that when stuff changes a lot.

Did a lot of bryopsis die off? Can't say for sure, but I've had sps problems when dissolved organics jumped up... like with skimmer running but not skimming.
 
[quote author=Mr. Ugly link=topic=6872.msg88924#msg88924 date=1237178106]
I could believe the toadstool got upset with the magnesium. They seem to do that when stuff changes a lot.

Did a lot of bryopsis die off? Can't say for sure, but I've had sps problems when dissolved organics jumped up... like with skimmer running but not skimming.
[/quote]

GFO would be a higher suspect with the toadstool IMO/IME.
 
bryopsis seems totally happy. >:(

Interesting about SPS problems with a jump in dissolved organics. My skimmer did go pretty crazy for the first day or so after adding the sand. So perhaps even after rinsing it still had a lot of organic stuff in it?

I did notice it had a strong oceany smell before I rinsed it. Is that common with new aragonite substrate?

Both toadstools are out and looking mostly happy at the moment. yay.
 
From my understanding when you get to magnesium number 1500+, raising it fast can hurt your sps. Also I thought the tech-M is the only magnesium supplement that helps the bryopsis.
 
[quote author=pixelpixi link=topic=6872.msg88961#msg88961 date=1237181516]
bryopsis seems totally happy. >:(
[/quote]

DBTC Bryopsis :D

Kalk overdose is pretty good at knocking out bryopsis.

If you're daring, you could try kalk, just short of getting a snowstorm.
 
[quote author=pixelpixi link=topic=6872.msg88961#msg88961 date=1237181516]
bryopsis seems totally happy. >:(
[/quote]

I have no first hand experience, but everything I have read (in the past) about Mg and bryopsis, was that it i wasn't the Mg lvl, but the concentration of some "impurity" in Tech D when you reach high magnesium lvls from its dosing.
 
I had read that some people thought it might be the impurities in tech m, but then I also read that at least a few people had success with other mag supplements including epsom salts. That's what I had on hand, so I decided to try it.

It's so difficult to separate the variables in this hobby. :(
 
Isn't epsom salt just magnesium sulfate. From what I understand you need to add magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate in ratios to add. If you go the DIY route you would need Dow mag flake(magnesium chloride)not sold in bay area(maybe Tahoe) and epsom salt(magnesium sulfate). Check the BRS web site or ask Randy-Farley Holmes on RC to get the right ratios between the two. I get the starter mag pack from BRS which contains the proper ratios between the different mg salts for supplementing my mg one pack makes 1 gallon.
 
I haven't read about anyone having success with anything other than Tech M.

Perhaps it was the sulfates from the epson salts or a mini cycle from the new sand or the iron of the GFO or a combination. In the future, I would recommend only changing on thing at a time and not doing an experimental treatment on a tank that might be in flux.

In any case, do a big old water change ASAP! :D
 
Those are all good recommendations. Really, I should have known better but at least now I do.

I've done a bunch of 15 gallon water changes. (that's the size of my mixing container) and I'll do a few more. I need to get a brute and keep a larger quantity of saltwater mixed up too.
 
[quote author=pixelpixi link=topic=6872.msg88836#msg88836 date=1237164569]
Mag started out on the high side of normal, around 1500ppm. I raised it to approx 1800 over a day using epsom salts dissolved in RO/DI water.
[/quote]

This could be part of the problem. Its recommended to rais Mg by a max of 100ppm/day.
 
[quote author=Thales link=topic=6872.msg89043#msg89043 date=1237222873]
[quote author=pixelpixi link=topic=6872.msg88836#msg88836 date=1237164569]
Mag started out on the high side of normal, around 1500ppm. I raised it to approx 1800 over a day using epsom salts dissolved in RO/DI water.
[/quote]

This could be part of the problem. Its recommended to rais Mg by a max of 100ppm/day.
[/quote]

By whom?

I know that is what Jose says but IIRC RHF said in an article that the ppm per day isn't any problem to do one massive dose but you need to be careful how fast you add it to the tank during the dose as so not to have some high MG cloud hit a coral.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

This solution is added much less frequently than the other two parts. Each time you finish adding a gallon of both parts of Recipe #1, add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this stock solution. You can add it all at once or over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

The first time it's added, I recommend adding just a small portion and making sure there isn't any problem (such as corals closing up due to stress) before adding the remainder. Make sure corals and other organisms don't get blasted with locally high concentrations of the main ingredients or impurities, or else they may become stressed. This solution contains about 47,000 ppm magnesium, 70,000 ppm sulfate and 86,000 ppm chloride.
Click to expand...

OK so I was close :D

1 gallon of solution dose :eek: I go a lot slower then that myself but that is just due to paranoia.
 
From http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php#16 (and other places):

Whatever supplement you choose, I suggest targeting the natural seawater concentration: 1285 ppm. When first using a DIY recipe, or even a commercial supplement, add a much smaller dose the first time to be sure there is no impurity (such as ammonia) that will negatively impact corals. If you see negative effects, such as corals withdrawing their polyps right after adding it, discontinue its use.

If you need to raise magnesium by several hundred ppm, splitting the addition over several days will allow you to better home in on the target concentration, and might allow the aquarium to deal with impurities that come in with the supplement.
Click to expand...

I believe the 100 per day came from Randy in a post as well as Jose, but I don't have time to wade around and find it - or to just ask him! :D

Also, Randy's articles aren't really concerned with higher than NSW levels of Mg, and I believe the recommendation was based on getting silly high levels like we are talking.
 
Also, I remember reading some posts from JenDub about keeping her micros at elevated Mg levels. 1500ppm or more.

She mentioned about using smaller dosages when going up past 1300ppm or so.
 
[quote author=Thales link=topic=6872.msg89070#msg89070 date=1237227178]
From http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php#16 (and other places):

Whatever supplement you choose, I suggest targeting the natural seawater concentration: 1285 ppm. When first using a DIY recipe, or even a commercial supplement, add a much smaller dose the first time to be sure there is no impurity (such as ammonia) that will negatively impact corals. If you see negative effects, such as corals withdrawing their polyps right after adding it, discontinue its use.

If you need to raise magnesium by several hundred ppm, splitting the addition over several days will allow you to better home in on the target concentration, and might allow the aquarium to deal with impurities that come in with the supplement.
Click to expand...

I believe the 100 per day came from Randy in a post as well as Jose, but I don't have time to wade around and find it - or to just ask him! :D

Also, Randy's articles aren't really concerned with higher than NSW levels of Mg, and I believe the recommendation was based on getting silly high levels like we are talking.
[/quote]

Basically the same thing he said in the one I posted. It's just the impurities your worried about.

*friendly ribbing ON*
I do find it rather funny you can post here, but not on the Clubhouse to get the direct answer :p No worries Mr. I'm too busy to even call Gresham, I'll take the minute and email Randy myself :D
*friendly ribbing OFF*
 
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