Cali Kid Corals

Is 'ethical' collection important to you?

Thales

Past President
What do you guys actually think? Do you strive to get corals that are collected well, or are you interested in low price? Is there a grey line? There is no wrong answer, I am just interested in the reality. :D
 
Out of curiosity how is a coral "collected well" ?? I mean fish, absolutely no doubt, if its cyanide caught I don't want it. But corals? I'm not familiar with collection methods, I mean ok hammer and whack off a piece of the reef but do you mean places that regulate like tonga? Or what? Eitherway if you want a truely honest answer I need to know the difference between a coral that isn't/is collected well.
 
It depends on the collector. Eddies divers are trained not to take everything. They will only collect if there are multiple colonies, as well as not taking the entire colony so that the coral in that area will not be decimated and will be collectable again in the future. Other Tongan outfits don't care and will take all of something, leaving nothing.


And use, well collected at a low price is great!
 
As much as I am more interested in purchasing farmed colonies or captive propragation, I too am interested in "relatively low price." I guess the real question can you really have your cake and eat it too?

Sorry, I digress too much. I would rather have an ethical collection and don't mind paying a little bit more e.g. the fish that are collected from Australia I believe are net collected (please correct me if I am wrong), but many if not most that are collected from Indonesia and the Phillipines use less than desirable methods. The Marine Center sell Australian Copperbands for far more expensive than the counterparts which I believe are from Indonesia.

The collection of corals and fish to some degree are similar are they not?
 
Well then I guess I wouldn't mind paying more for "collected well" corals. Of course the huge question here is how can you tell? There's a huge list of people that most likely pass between the ocean and be when I get corals and to try and figure out how they are collected would most like be an act of futility.

With all that being said, I rather like frag swaps and the like, I get "mari/aqua cultured" corals, and the price is definately right :)
 
I think it is very difficult to be sure your animals are collected ethically. There really isn't anything in place legislatively to protect the collecting grounds from "slash and burn" collectors. And while I know that our collectors are salaried and therefore have the luxury of the lower yield/ethical collection practices, many divers are paid by the piece and when it comes to feeding their children, will do what is required. And as far as claims of ethical collection goes, talk is cheap and anyone can make this clain and never have to support it in any way. -Jim
 
BTW, Conscientious Aquarist will be publishing a 3 part series I"m writing on this very subject. I'm afraid it's a bit of an indicment of our hobby and industry. Pt. 1 mostly concerns fish and should be in the next issue.
Your President gets photo credit-Thx-Rich!
 
currently I'm at the cheap prices. to a point.
I am in this hobby at the moment with no extra money to spare but whne my finacial situation changes i will only be interested in well colected.
Sorry but that the situation im in and wish it were differen't
 
To be honest, the first questions that come to my mind when I'm looking at corals are:

- Cool looking piece?
- Low price?

The ethical collection concept is new to me. I first heard about that at the recent meeting with the presentation on the Tonga project. Very impressive. Appeals to the biologist in me.

At this point, I can appreciate ethical collection, but it's not the first thing I'm thinking. I will say this... if I know that a coral as been collected through plundering and pillaging a reef, I won't buy it, no matter how inexpensive. And if a coral is too pricey for me, then I pass on it, hoping that I can get a small piece in a trade someday.
 
Fair enough everyone, and like I say, there is no wrong answer. Money is important and tight for everyone, and the idea of ethical collection is only starting to get established in the minds of hobbyists. Part of the benefit of this club is to make people aware, so they can pay attention to it now or in the future.
 
Mr. Ugly said:
Yeah, more swaps :) Though, I've been wondering if frag swaps end up hurting business at the LFS.

It definitely does, but the lost sale is only from this segment of the hobby. An LFS owner once told me that it's begineers who drive retail sales. Based on my personal experience, he's right on. Heck, I paid The Aquarium in Concord $19.95 for a thumb sized xenia frag back when I converted from FW to Reef.

So, to paraphrase P.T. Barnum, There's always a begineer born every day. :lol:

Revenge of the xenia: I've been feeding my dog and 2 cats for free this last year and a half, from Pet Store credits of my xenia frags.

Jim
 
Yeah, high end corals really do not make money for a LFS, now for an online e-store yeah sure. But for LFS most money is non-livestock stuff (heck even TP didn't make much off coral sales, atleast the profit aspect of things).

So if a LFS stop seeing as much corals bought they will (hopefully) stop buying as many corals as a result and since many don't make much profit off them they'll not really hurt, the reefs hurt less, and all is good, especially in the stony reef building corals!
 
Actuallly Jim, some LFS owners have told me that during our events, sales go up for the day ;) The LFS isn't loosing money if the attendie is a member and if not they loose what, $20? I doubt they're worried about that $20.. Everyone needs salt, dipping supplies, etc :D
 
I have absolutely no probelm spending extra for animals that have been sustainably collected, aquacultured, or tank raised. It's a small price to pay if you ever intend to visit any of those places with a mask on.
 
well how do you tell? fine to say, but you cant just go by price, ASAP is a great example, we know that they sell net caught fish, and even a few places that buy from them, but they cant tell us who the sell to and what, nor will the fish stores tell us which fish came from ASAP... so if a place did sell corals that were not slash and burn, which ones would they be? and If your willing to pay more for a few corals, then the prices will increase for all of them. would you pay more for tanked corals than transshiped... I would, less chance of it to RTN, but again how do you know.. I would rather pay more for a coral displayed in proper lighing and filtering... but this is vary rare... so you can collect it properly and ship it/display it improperly and it its worth more? then again should we pay more for a coral just becuse a person is calling it a LE? the corals you buy in the LFS are re fraged, and then the frags are sold at the price of a huge colony, this puts on added stress each time its fraged, once the colony is tanked for a few months and frags are removed, and held in the same system for a few months the chance of them RTN is vary low. but again this is rare, usally the LFS wants to frag them when they get to their shop and sell them off, they are stressed and have a greater chance to RTN. I would at this point rather buy 4-6 inch heads for 12.00-18.00 each direct and buy lots of them and take the risk of losing a few, its only slightly greater risk than buying them from the LFS, and if somthing specialy nice comes in then name it after yourself and put a LE in front of it. and then sell off 1 inch pieces for 100.00 .... god this hobby is full of fools...
 
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