Reef nutrition

Neptune Trident

musclebenz

musclebenz

Supporting Member
BARcard
After a couple months of waiting my name finally came up on Neptune Aquatics wait list. I feel like a kid and setting it up tonight
f3d151107d08a12b29044b3272b047a1.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The setup was super easy as your select the device directly on the Apex Fusion App and then it guides you via embedded videos. I had my first readings this morning when I work up.
 
Flagg37 said:
Were your readings about what you expected? Any surprises yet?
Click to expand...
No surprises at all. The readings are right in line with my manual tests. It's like "Set it and forget it" and all your readings are on your app. In about two months you need to replace the reagents and waste water.
 
Are you planning to measure as frequently as they recommend (4x/day alk, 2x/d Ca and Mg)? On the face of it, it seems like overkill and a reagent waste, but maybe there is value there that we just don’t know about yet.
 
JVU said:
Are you planning to measure as frequently as they recommend (4x/day alk, 2x/d Ca and Mg)? On the face of it, it seems like overkill and a reagent waste, but maybe there is value there that we just don’t know about yet.
Click to expand...
I am going to let it run under the default for a week and then change the frequency to see if i can stretch out the reagents. Since these units are in such high demand I already bought the next supply of reagent to make sure the system is always able to do it's testing. BRS is already out of stock on the reagent
 
Was going to say it could be a "Razor & Blades model" of doing business too, but the cost of the refills isn't horribly expensive all things considered, just over $20 a month, and the Trident itself is hardly a cheap device.
 
One could possibly make an argument for multiple alk tests per day, but I can’t think of any reefkeeping reason to check Ca or Mg that frequently. It must have been a design/engineering decision, for example to keep the lines primed or to make sure the fluid in the lines still matches that in the tank, as Newjack said. If that’s the case, I’d like to see an option down the road to be able to set it to less frequent testing but still keep the lines primed by wasting a little tank water as needed.

Maybe fluctuations in the Ca or Mg level would help you see problems with salinity if your salinity probe wasn’t working well.
 
The justifications they've given are mostly about maintaining high precision of all the tests. As for the value in testing Ca and Mg multiple times, the main benefit touted has been catching dosing "mistakes" quickly. Honestly I think that is the silver lining on the fact that they need to do them that often to maintain the precision of the tests (i.e. not letting the reagents sit in the testing lines).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
gunit said:
The justifications they've given are mostly about maintaining high precision of all the tests. As for the value in testing Ca and Mg multiple times, the main benefit touted has been catching dosing "mistakes" quickly. Honestly I think that is the silver lining on the fact that they need to do them that often to maintain the precision of the tests (i.e. not letting the reagents sit in the testing lines).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
All great points and views. It does provide "up to the date" (a few hours) feedback on your tank which is a good thing. I check my portal throughout the day now to check on the readings
 
I'd also add that my points ignored the actual value around the precision that the Trident (with the frequent tests) offers. I don't know if any test out there that can offer .05 dKH precision (especially with a human involved and a hobby-grade test kit).

Now how much you value that precision is likely based on how much benefit you think there is in maintaining that stable of Alkalinity (and how much you're willing to spend on the hobby).
 
Last edited:
As I like to tell my students, understand what those numbers actually mean that come out of the calculator/computer. Also don't fall into the trap of precision = accuracy. The precision of the Apex is +/- 0.05dKh (claimed) that doesn't mean the accuracy is +/- 0.05dKh. Example, a heater that is set to 78°F but regularly turns on off between 71.5 & 72.5° has a precision of +/-0.05°, it's accuracy on the other hand is something to be desired.

But for giggles lets say it is super factory calibrated and that's also it's accuracy, you're right in how much value you actually put into that. How much can/will it fluctuate between actual measurements (this is where precision is key). That said the precision of my red sea test kit I think is 0.14dKh which is determined solely on my ability to put exactly 0.1mL of solution into a bottle but for me, it's good enough. This is very useful for, as my friend Rich Ross likes to say, help with the lazy, if you don't have to do those tests ever again, AND you know they're being done, AND you're getting multiple readings per day not just weekly/biweekly, it really is a win all around. Maybe in the future for me, step one though, get Apex :D
 
For us, I feel precision and repeatability is more important than accuracy anyway.
The reason - you really want to chase stability and notice sudden changes, more than you want to chase exact numbers.
 
There may be something interesting and unpredicted from getting this data from many people more frequently, aka emergent phenomena. This has happened before in our hobby. For that reason I’m following along with interest.

But since they do not fluctuate daily, there is no a priori reason to think measuring Ca and Mg 2x/day with good prediction and/or accuracy will be helpful based on our current understanding of reef tank biochemistry.

My interpretation is that they had a lofty stated goal with this hardware, and the only way they could get it to work technically without further delay was to make this compromise. Their promotional material isn’t forthcoming about this; they say reagents will last 2 months depending on frequency of testing but don’t point out that that is the minimum testing and maximum time between refills. If their experimentation required them to test Ca and Mg 1x/day or 4x/day it would be for the same reason and with the same justifications, and not the biochemistry.

I think it’s great we have 1st gen of this kind of testing. Although I don’t see the advantage of this over testing alk with my Hanna checker a couple times a week, I’m looking forward to how this will advance with further generations of hardware.

For me the cost of the Trident and the refills are not the important consideration. It is purely how much time would I spend on maintaining the Trident and refills vs time spent manual testing much less frequently, plus which approach is more enjoyable and better for the tank. For now, manual testing makes more sense, but I’m looking forward to automating this, maybe with the next gen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top