Jestersix

Opinion on bacteria & carbon dosing

Joseph Lee

Joseph Lee

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Here are my thoughts on Bacteria dosing & carbon dosing. What do you think? Which one do you prefer, or do you dose both or nothing?
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Bacteria dosing
- diversifies the bacteria strains - there are types other than just nitrifying version. e.g, sludge busing one, red algae fighting one, green algae fighting one, etc
- good coral food
- bacterias multiply very quickly under normal conditions (especially when skimmer is off)
- it consumes po4 and no3
- it cleans rock surfaces

(additional input - 04/12)
- maybe there are already tons of bacteria in our tanks
- fights against unfriendly bacteria (cyano and dyno)
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Carbon dosing
- it helps bacteria to multiply rapidly
- it does not diversify bacteria strains
- it can deplete the o2 level
- it feeds both good and bad bacteria?

(additional input - 04/12)
- It reduces po4 and no3
- it can lower PH (due to lower O2 level I assume)
- a good idea to dose when your tank has low po4 and no3 to feed bacteria to multiply.
- Multiplied bacteria can be food for acropora
 
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Thoughts:

Bacterial dosing: Makes sense to me in a new-ish system, when you're establishing your bacterial ecology. Later though, it doesn't make that much sense to me to add bacterial types that require constant re-dosing (if they're not holding their own, are they actually doing anything within your aquariums "niche"?). I never noticed any "real" effect besides kicking off a nitrogen cycle in my tanks.

Carbon dosing: Has reduced nitrates and phosphates in my system, water is a little clearer, pulling more skimmate and corals seem a little "plumper". Haven't noticed symptoms of low o2, and a persistent clownfish bacterial infection hasn't returned since dosing vinegar. (anecdote)
 
What problem(s) are you trying to address? They do totally different things and each is appropriate in different situations, so we need context.
 
I have never noticed O2 level problems from carbon dosing. Just don't suddenly does a ton all at once and produce a bloom.
It did mess with my PH a bit.
Carbon dosing did reduce nitrates, so I believe it is a very viable PO4/NO3 reduction method.
I went back to my algae scrubber, but that is just me.

The bacteria for starting a new tank can definitely help, but I don't think you are asking about that.

I did try some of the other bacteria dosing. Really no visible effect for me.
I am very skeptical on the claims for these.
Everyone already has tons of bacteria in the tank. Does having a "special type" matter...??.
That makes no sense to me for basic things like PO4/NO3.
It might make sense for special sludge busting, so I tried that, and did not notice any difference.
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I updated the list above to reflect your input.
I got very curious about this topic last night and wanted to clarify what I know so far.
I only dose bacteria since I don't have a skimmer. Based on what I know so far, for normal healthy reef tanks, it looks like both can be beneficial.
I am now thinking about carbon dosing. : )

Here are a couple of interesting videos:

Brightwell has two different bacteria products - MB7 and MB clean. He also talks about carbon dosing and different bacteria strains.

Why LOW NUTRIENTS Are A No-Go
 
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JVU said:
You definitely should NOT do carbon dosing if you aren’t using a skimmer.

The whole point of C dosing is to stimulate bacterial growth with uptake of N and P, and then removal of those bacteria through skimming. Also, skimming is required to prevent low O2 when the bacteria bloom.
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Thanks for the tip! I thought to myself that surface agitation + and surface skimming might be enough for the gas exchange but I should not risk it! :)
 
JVU said:
You definitely should NOT do carbon dosing if you aren’t using a skimmer.

The whole point of C dosing is to stimulate bacterial growth with uptake of N and P, and then removal of those bacteria through skimming. Also, skimming is required to prevent low O2 when the bacteria bloom.
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That’s great advice. I started carbon dosing last month I would empty the skimmer once a week now I empty the skimmer once every three days
 
Reminder that the best nutrient removal is ......... CORAL.
:)

Seriously, once your tank is well established and chock full of coral, a lot of the nutrient issues go away.
A fair number of people end up dosing nitrates.
 
rygh said:
Reminder that the best nutrient removal is ......... CORAL.
:)

Seriously, once your tank is well established and chock full of coral, a lot of the nutrient issues go away.
A fair number of people end up dosing nitrates.
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Agreed. As my tank is getting filled with corals, I need to feed fish more to get adequate nutrient levels. It is much easier than manual dosing and also seems better for overall coral health.
 
Bacteria Dosing vs Carbon Dosing [to achieve what?]. Your topic might as well be Purple vs Green.

Either of the techniques you mention are useful if you need to address an issue they are tailored to address. None are needed at all for many reef tanks.

Search for the cause of your problems, not for solutions to someone else problems. What is going on with your tank?
 
Qwiv said:
Bacteria Dosing vs Carbon Dosing [to achieve what?]. Your topic might as well be Purple vs Green.

Either of the techniques you mention are useful if you need to address an issue they are tailored to address. None are needed at all for many reef tanks.

Search for the cause of your problems, not for solutions to someone else problems. What is going on with your tank?
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Hi Qwiv,

My tank is actually thriving currently with consistent parameters (I test twice a week). My goal here is to find out the best practice for overall coral health and color :)
 
Joseph Lee said:
Hi Qwiv,

My tank is actually thriving currently with consistent parameters (I test twice a week). My goal here is to find out the best practice for overall coral health and color :)
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Tons of things. Flow + Lighting + Water quality + Food + compatible fish + compatible coral + Detritus + Algae + Cyano + etc.
For food, I would generally recommend sticking with quality live, frozen, or bottled food, not chemicals or bacteria.
For water quality, you have to test first, see if it is OK, then discuss fixing what might be off.
That is where carbon dosing comes in, and I do think it is one of the better methods, but how bad is it?
Are you trying to fix something that is not even broken?
For detritus, I would recommend vacuuming it out and squirting rocks with a powerhead occasionally, not chemicals or bacteria.

Compatible coral is something tons of people overlook.
Just as it is difficult to mix timid and aggressive fish, it is difficult to mix various softies and SPS.
 
rygh said:
Tons of things. Flow + Lighting + Water quality + Food + compatible fish + compatible coral + Detritus + Algae + Cyano + etc.
For food, I would generally recommend sticking with quality live, frozen, or bottled food, not chemicals or bacteria.
For water quality, you have to test first, see if it is OK, then discuss fixing what might be off.
That is where carbon dosing comes in, and I do think it is one of the better methods, but how bad is it?
Are you trying to fix something that is not even broken?
For detritus, I would recommend vacuuming it out and squirting rocks with a powerhead occasionally, not chemicals or bacteria.

Compatible coral is something tons of people overlook.
Just as it is difficult to mix timid and aggressive fish, it is difficult to mix various softies and SPS.
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Thanks for the advice. I have been overlooking the carbon source method as I don't have a skimmer but I can definitely see why it is useful.
 
JVU said:
You definitely should NOT do carbon dosing if you aren’t using a skimmer.

The whole point of C dosing is to stimulate bacterial growth with uptake of N and P, and then removal of those bacteria through skimming. Also, skimming is required to prevent low O2 when the bacteria bloom.
Click to expand...
Well, there might be another case where people dose carbon to supply more bacteria for acros to “eat.” Lou Ekis had a talk explaining that corals aren’t good at utilizing phosphate from the water but are good at consuming phosphate-containing bacteria. But this requires having a lot of corals to filter out the excess bacteria that grows after carbon dosing.
 
Joseph Lee said:
Hi Qwiv,

My tank is actually thriving currently with consistent parameters (I test twice a week). My goal here is to find out the best practice for overall coral health and color :)
Click to expand...
Awesome, and thanks for bringing context to your question.

If you are looking healthy, dosing bacteria is likely a waste to time. You should already have a thriving population of all that you need and dosing will likely not change the ratio in your tank as bacteria are competitive and fight it out to make their own equilibrium. To effect a stabilized population you would need to bring in a huge population of alternate bacteria to really sway the balance. If you had an issue that a bacteria could address, then that would be different, like say the use of “Vibrant.”

Regarding Dosing Carbon - If you are not having issues managing N & P, then that is a waste of time as well. A solution looking for a problem and would likely cause a problem by lowering your tanks nutrients too far - Well, if you had a skimmer, which you don't, so Carbon Dosing really is a non-issue.

If you think you are deficient on Bacteria, you can send you water out for testing. Without a skimmer, I would find that unlikely unless you have antibiotics in the tank.

If you are looking for a healthy tank, stability, water flow, lighting and water changes are the keys to success with Stability being the key to mosts success. Most of our corals will adapt to a stabile environment. Dosing unless you do it consistently to the values your tank is deficient upsets stability so if there isn't an issue to resolve, it will do more harm then good like dosing 2 part when you don't have a demand on alk & ca.
 
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Chromis said:
Well, there might be another case where people dose carbon to supply more bacteria for acros to “eat.” Lou Ekis had a talk explaining that corals aren’t good at utilizing phosphate from the water but are good at consuming phosphate-containing bacteria. But this requires having a lot of corals to filter out the excess bacteria that grows after carbon dosing.
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Thanks for sharing. Brightwell CEO says (5:20 in the video) that corals in the wild eat consume eat "bacterioplankton" which is bacteria floating in the ocean and we can do the same thing in our tank which is a good source of live food. Dr Tim also says that bacterias are "gut loaded by N and P" and get eaten by coral.

At first, I thought dosing bacteria would achieve that but, now I think about it, I feel that carbon source might be a more effective way to feed bacteria to corals.
 
Qwiv said:
Awesome, and thanks for bringing context to your question.

If you are looking healthy, dosing bacteria is likely a waste to time. You should already have a thriving population of all that you need and dosing will likely not change the ratio in your tank as bacteria are competitive and fight it out to make their own equilibrium. To effect a stabilized population you would need to bring in a huge population of alternate bacteria to really sway the balance. If you had an issue that a bacteria could address, then that would be different, like say the use of Vibrant.

Regarding Dosing Carbon - If you are not having issues managing N & P, then that is a waste of time as well. A solution looking for a problem and would likely cause a problem by lowering your tanks nutrients too far - Well, if you had a skimmer, which you don't, so Carbon Dosing really is a non-issue.

If you think you are deficient on Bacteria, you can send you water out for testing. Without a skimmer, I would find that unlikely unless you have antibiotics in the tank.

If you are looking for a healthy tank, stability, water flow, lighting and water changes are the keys to success with Stability being the key to mosts success. Most of our corals will adapt to a stabile environment. Dosing unless you do it consistently to the values your tank is deficient upsets stability so if there isn't an issue to resolve, it will do more harm then good like dosing 2 part when you don't have a demand on alk & ca.
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Thanks for the advice! Definitely agree that stability, water flow, lighting, and water changes are the key since I have seen plenty of amazing tanks without dosing bacteria or carbon source.
 
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