Kessil

Stray Voltage?

I've been noticing a slight tingle on cuts/hangnails on the rare occasions that I stick my hands in the display tank. I've tested sticking my hand in the quarantine tank and don't feel the same thing, so I was assuming it's some stray voltage. At this point, everything in my tank is on DC except for the heater. I've done a little reading online and apparently you test AC and DC the same, so that's what I did. With everything running, I get a reading around 5 - 6 with my multi-meter on 200~ which seems to be well within safe levels. Turning everything off (including lights) changes nothing.

Anything else I should do to test?
 
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Take them out too, you could have a bent wire or joint


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Good point. I did just disassemble my skimmer and put everything else back together again. I also finally took my powerhead down and cleaned it last week or the week before (all the weeks are running together these days). I didn't see any issues with either of those. I'll take out the return pump and see if there is anything visually wrong.
 
Do you have anyone to help you unplug things? What I would do is deal with the tingle while things are unplugged, you could start huge like an entire power strip (assuming you have multiple) then just widdle it down. Last time I did that, it was a Tunze 6100 pump I was using to mix saltwater the cord that attached to the base had cracked open. A lot easier to do this than to look for the physically damaged wire.
 
Do you have anyone to help you unplug things? What I would do is deal with the tingle while things are unplugged, you could start huge like an entire power strip (assuming you have multiple) then just widdle it down. Last time I did that, it was a Tunze 6100 pump I was using to mix saltwater the cord that attached to the base had cracked open. A lot easier to do this than to look for the physically damaged wire.

Well, welcome to the continuing saga of "how many shitty heaters can I buy"! Apparently my brand new heater somehow manages to leak voltage into the water even when it's turned off. I'm guessing something in the controller from BRS, but it's difficult to unplug and troubleshoot, so I dropped in a cheap pre-set heater for the time being...
 
ooooh those BRS titanium heaters? Yeah as soon as I saw them advertising them with "their" controller which is nothing more than a rebranded Inkbird I question the quality of everything about that. That said, titanium heaters can very well be suspect if the epoxy that seals the ends gets any sort of gap in it. The upside if it's a brand new heater I'd send customer service at BRS a comment about it, they're usually really good about replacing stuff.
 
Well, welcome to the continuing saga of "how many shitty heaters can I buy"! Apparently my brand new heater somehow manages to leak voltage into the water even when it's turned off. I'm guessing something in the controller from BRS, but it's difficult to unplug and troubleshoot, so I dropped in a cheap pre-set heater for the time being...

I had a similar problem with the BRS titanium heater. But I didn't notice it because of getting zapped when I stuck my hand in. I noticed it because it was throwing off my salinity reading by 3ppt. I ended up taking it out because it was leaking voltage after I did some investigating.
 
ooooh those BRS titanium heaters? Yeah as soon as I saw them advertising them with "their" controller which is nothing more than a rebranded Inkbird I question the quality of everything about that. That said, titanium heaters can very well be suspect if the epoxy that seals the ends gets any sort of gap in it. The upside if it's a brand new heater I'd send customer service at BRS a comment about it, they're usually really good about replacing stuff.
I second the BRS customer service, I just had a fitting on my rodi unit crack due to pressure from the float valve. I messaged them and they gave me reward points for the item and shared the link so I could add it to my next order.
 
I had a similar problem with the BRS titanium heater. But I didn't notice it because of getting zapped when I stuck my hand in. I noticed it because it was throwing off my salinity reading by 3ppt. I ended up taking it out because it was leaking voltage after I did some investigating.

That's a bummer. I knew that the controller from BRS was just a rebranded inkbird. I figured it would fail eventually, but I didn't expect it to leak voltage.

I understood that the BRS heating element itself is made by Schego (in germany I think). They seem to have pretty stellar reviews. At some point I'm going to try to plug the heating element into the GHL Profilux and see if that causes the same problem. I think I only installed the BRS controller for redundancy.
 
That is interesting though that you're getting the zap when the unit is supposed to be off by the controller, which still suggests the heater is the problem, but also the controller is on when it should be off. An easy way to check the controller is due the "hangnail tingle test" with the heater, and if you feel it unplug the heater and plug in a lamp to the inkbird to see if it's just broken and stuck on.
 
That is interesting though that you're getting the zap when the unit is supposed to be off by the controller, which still suggests the heater is the problem, but also the controller is on when it should be off. An easy way to check the controller is due the "hangnail tingle test" with the heater, and if you feel it unplug the heater and plug in a lamp to the inkbird to see if it's just broken and stuck on.

The heater casing is supposed to also double as a grounding probe, so I assume the ground plug on the heater is connected to the outside casing. I'm just guessing that there is some sort of connection inside the inkbird controller that shouldn't be there to the ground - perhaps on the DC portion that the controller runs on?

I had to LOL at the lamp test. I can't think of a single incandescent bulb that I still have in the house (not even the oven). I assume my LED's probably won't turn on unless they are getting a significant amount of juice. The GFCI hasn't tripped through all this and appears to be working, so it seems to me like it's a small "leak".
 
I don't mean incandescent bulb, plug in a lamp like the actual lamp with plug can be an LED bulb, CFL, whatever, not just the bulb. Just something to give you a visual cue that the circuit is open. If it is in fact just a tiny trickle (which it shouldn't do) then yeah it won't turn on the lamp, but if for whatever reason it's stuck in the on position it will let you know it's stuck on.

Interesting about the outside casing being a grounding probe though, if it was acting like a grounding probe and was functioning correctly then you shouldn't feel a tingle when you submerge your hand. Maybe when the inkbird is off it also somehow cuts off the ground side as well, so something else in the tank has the break.
 
I don't mean incandescent bulb, plug in a lamp like the actual lamp with plug can be an LED bulb, CFL, whatever, not just the bulb. Just something to give you a visual cue that the circuit is open. If it is in fact just a tiny trickle (which it shouldn't do) then yeah it won't turn on the lamp, but if for whatever reason it's stuck in the on position it will let you know it's stuck on.

Interesting about the outside casing being a grounding probe though, if it was acting like a grounding probe and was functioning correctly then you shouldn't feel a tingle when you submerge your hand. Maybe when the inkbird is off it also somehow cuts off the ground side as well, so something else in the tank has the break.

I don't think the inkbird is stuck on, my tank would be too hot if that were the case and it's been 78 degrees.

I just plugged in the BRS heater to the GHL and it's been on for a while. Passes the tingle test, so I think I've found the culprit. Still need to confirm with the multi-meter.
 
Is the APEX conductivity probe affected by stray voltage? I mean - does it show a different reading because of it? May be one way to detect it.
 
From the statements above, it seems likely that there is a short in the controller between the wall power wire and the heating element grounding plug wire.
So even when off, stray current get through to the ground.
Not a problem with the heating element itself.

To test this:
Put multimeter on ohms.
Put one test probe on the wall plug from the controller. Specifically the smaller blade of the two.
Put the other test probe on the socket where the heating element plugs in. Specifically the round hole.
If this does not measure 0, that is bad.
 
From the statements above, it seems likely that there is a short in the controller between the wall power wire and the heating element grounding plug wire.
So even when off, stray current get through to the ground.
Not a problem with the heating element itself.

To test this:
Put multimeter on ohms.
Put one test probe on the wall plug from the controller. Specifically the smaller blade of the two.
Put the other test probe on the socket where the heating element plugs in. Specifically the round hole.
If this does not measure 0, that is bad.

Did this. On 200 Ohms it oscillates from around -180 to around +10 when on and then registers about 10 when I remember to put the temp sensor in warm water to get it to shut the circuit off.
 
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That's a bummer. I knew that the controller from BRS was just a rebranded inkbird. I figured it would fail eventually, but I didn't expect it to leak voltage.

I understood that the BRS heating element itself is made by Schego (in germany I think). They seem to have pretty stellar reviews. At some point I'm going to try to plug the heating element into the GHL Profilux and see if that causes the same problem. I think I only installed the BRS controller for redundancy.

I didn't have the controller, I just bought the heating element. So it was the actual heating that was leaking voltage.
 
Is the APEX conductivity probe affected by stray voltage? I mean - does it show a different reading because of it? May be one way to detect it.

Yes. The salinity probe is a conductivity probe that detects amount of current between two electrodes.
 
Is the APEX conductivity probe affected by stray voltage? I mean - does it show a different reading because of it? May be one way to detect it.
Man Alex salinity prob will be affected by anything snd
Yes. The salinity probe is a conductivity probe that detects amount of current between two electrodes.
Man honestly the apex prob collapse with the slightest grounding, static or anything near it.
My prob used to drop 10 points when my skimmer near it works. I do not have static or issues in the system and have tested many times.
Same location I have my ghl prob, it never showed the issue.
Am not aire why exactly but that is the data I sae in my system.
I think it's not only about static in the water, it has something to do with the design of the module connected to the probs. I think there are improvements that can be done on the board of the module to make the prob more robust...
I remember in the past reef keeper had similar issues with their ph probs and salinity probs. It was more sever than apex, and they did fix it better later....
 
Did this. On 200 Ohms it oscillates from around -180 to around +10 when on and then registers about 10 when I remember to put the temp sensor in warm water to get it to shut the circuit off.
Actually, I meant when totally disconnected. Sorry I was not clear. Glad it did not burn out your multimeter.
At any rate, that is a bad thing. 10 ohms or so is very low resistance.
Time for a new controller.

I have several JBJ ones, but have definitely had problems.

I guess the only one I recommend these days is the Ranco.
But you need to make sure to get the pre-wired one, and the PVC heat shrink on sensor.
(Non-aquarium controllers often use copper)
 
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