Jestersix

ADA Act. compliance Q

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Got a friendly visit from a city official (not inspector)
The store is an old house/building; not modified, additions or any construction done to it I believe since it was built.
Has been the same way for years and basically the same type of business, hair/skin products.
There's a bit of a step at the entry ~2.5" and the city rep. suggested that we/she (my sister) deals with the little issue to "comply" with the ADA Act. Now, as far as known, one cannot be forced to have the place comply since there's no work to be done or has been done that the law would require yet, there are people who would just to make easy money and give a small business owner that just started on her own, sue for a pretty penny.
Can the business be forced to comply? I think it might be a shared cost between owner of the business and landlord (in this case)
I've been reading on the ADA Act. I cannot find in regards of structures built years before the Act was signed into law.
I have the idea of a steel ramp with grooves or a rough surface and bolt secured to the sidewalk; the slope would extend it about 5 or 6 inches out to the sidewalk and I don't believe would be a tripping hazard as it would be tapered all around.

Thanks in advance
 
First, I am not a lawyer.

Landlord and tenant are BOTH legally responsible, so it really is decided by the wording of your lease.
So look at that first. It should show who is liable, and how much leverage
you have to get the landlord to pay for it.

There are definitely lawsuit types out there, who both want to make money, and feel it
is their civic duty to get people to comply. I did have a friend with a restaurant get caught up in that.
So doing something is a good idea.
 
I'll ask her to check the lease; read a bit on ADA compliance and if she was to fully comply, more than half of the retail space would have to be cleared for such rules, there would be no space for the products !!!
 
First thing you should check is Local Buiding/Zoning codes. Each city has is own rules on ADA compliance and building codes. Answering your question about being forced to comply with ADA regulations. Is YES they can force you to comply, but once again this gos hand in hand with local codes. Sometimes you can get around the issue with the " Grandfather Clause " but this dosnt always work. I know in SF if you do any building related work or improvements on a commercial property, you will have to change any existing conditions that dont comply with curent ADA requirements. That being said, if the landlord or previous tenants did any work to the building with or without permits. And the City can show proof that some part of the building has been changed, even if you didnt do it :| They can make you comply! In regards to the ramp your thinking about building, I wouldn't your only going to attract more attention. I dont know what city your in? But most places you cant have a ramp encroach onto public property (Sidewalk) If you where going to build a ramp it would have to comply with the follow ADA details

(a) Ramps: Curb ramps and interior or exterior ramps to be constructed on sites or in existing buildings or facilities where space limitations prohibit the use of a 1:12 slope or less may have slopes and rises as follows:

(i) A slope between 1:10 and 1:12 is allowed for a maximum rise of 6 inches (150 mm).

(ii) A slope between 1:8 and 1:10 is allowed for a maximum rise of 3 inches (75 mm). A slope steeper than 1:8 is not allowed.

Or

4.8 Ramps.

4.8.1* General. Any part of an accessible route with a slope greater than 1:20 shall be considered a ramp and shall comply with 4.8. Appendix Note

4.8.2* Slope and Rise. The least possible slope shall be used for any ramp. The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12. The maximum rise for any run shall be 30 in (760 mm) (see Fig. 16). Curb ramps and ramps to be constructed on existing sites or in existing buildings or facilities may have slopes and rises as allowed in 4.1.6(3)(a) if space limitations prohibit the use of a 1:12 slope or less. Appendix Note

4.8.3 Clear Width. The minimum clear width of a ramp shall be 36 in (915 mm).

4.8.4* Landings. Ramps shall have level landings at bottom and top of each ramp and each ramp run. Landings shall have the following features:

(1) The landing shall be at least as wide as the ramp run leading to it.

(2) The landing length shall be a minimum of 60 in (1525 mm) clear.

(3) If ramps change direction at landings, the minimum landing size shall be 60 in by 60 in (1525 mm by 1525 mm).

(4) If a doorway is located at a landing, then the area in front of the doorway shall comply with 4.13.6. Appendix Note

Not to say they will most likely pull a building permit and have an inspection. Im sorry to here about your problem, its all a bunch of red tape and MONEY!
Try to get in touch with someone at your local building department, take pictures, make a drawing, and then go see them in persomn. Hope the info helps, Im not an expert but I have dealt with these problems myself.
Goodluck!
 
I can't answer your question but I can tell you about a friend of mine who worked for several months for a scumbag lawyer who made all his $$ (and a lot of it) by suing businesses over ADA compliance. This was in SF, not sure how many eager lawyers there are in your city but it's good to do your homework.
 
One key thing:
If you are sued, IMMEDIATELY get your landlord added to the suit.
The odds are decent that outside steps are their problem, especially if it is a group of stores.
And they likely have more money for legal defense.
But it is important to do that quickly.

Also, you might want to officially tell the landlord about the city worker visit.
One of those odd things where by you not informing them, you take on liability.
No idea if true in ADA type issues, but can be in other cases.

Might also be a time to double check your liability insurance coverage.
Or create a shell corporation. Save some taxes as well. :) {definitely kidding}

---

Hope it goes well. With this economy, the last thing a small business owner needs
is red tape, hassles, and lawsuits.
 
Kind of like unions, ADA was good in principle but it is a pain in the butt of a lot of people and often gets abused to hell and back. All those yellow bumps at every corner it seems that probably cost a TON of money is an ADA compliance. Often dirt bag lawyers go after businesses like leeches to make a buck due to

Unfortunately, there is no grandfather clause for the ADA. If you have a public business you need to comply to a certain extent.

Here's a good read
http://www.ada.gov/smbustxt.htm

Here's a few snippets from the above.

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) is a Federal civil rights law that prohibits the exclusion of people with disabilities from everyday activities, such as buying an item at the store, watching a movie in a theater, enjoying a meal at a local restaurant, exercising at the local health club or having the car serviced at a local garage. To meet the goals of the ADA, the law established requirements for private businesses of all sizes. These requirements first went into effect on January 26, 1992, and continue for both for-profit and non-profit organizations.
Click to expand...

If you own, operate, lease, or lease to a business that serves the public, then, you are covered by the ADA and have obligations for existing facilities as well as for compliance when a facility is altered or a new facility is constructed. Existing facilities are not exempted by "grandfather provisions" that are often used by building code officials.
Click to expand...

However
While it is not possible for many businesses, especially small businesses, to make their facilities fully accessible, there is much that can be done without much difficulty or expense to improve accessibility. Therefore, the ADA requires that accessibility be improved without taking on excessive expenses that could harm the business.
Click to expand...

So depending upon what needs to be done you could possible claim an exemption if the business is tiny, barely making it, etc.

Now I'm not sure if any ADA issue is cause for an instant lawsuit, it might be as simple as "ok I'll comply" and be done with it. If it's something as simple as step, perhaps putting a ramp in would be feasible, there are tax credits available too for doing these sorts of things.
 
I'll talk to my sister as soon as she gets back in town.
Mike, the store is in San Francisco; I'll also will discuss with my sis about having her business as a Co./Inc.
I'll take a walk around the neighborhood to check how businesses that have been established forever in this area, have the entry fixed or accommodated to comply.
Seems the "Grandfather Clause" would be an umbrella but not a shelter, the city official mentioned that some law suits end up costing money from the sued party, a settlement often is the least expensive way and could be in the couple 10K's
There should be some legislation to stop and punish people who live off suing for whatever based on the repetitive behavior...
Gavin did the grand opening and before parting to Sacramento he had to stop to buy hair products (doubt they are for his wife ! )
 
+1!!!!!

ADA is a must comply deal, and it is often more expensive to prove that you can not afford to make improvements then the actual improvements!
 
Just recently I heard about some asshat just going around and suing businesses in SF on the radio. I'm all for the concept behind ADA but man it can mess with small businesses.
 
Good info I'm getting from you guys, it helps a TON.
I'll get into getting a removable ramp if not possible to just grade permanently at the entry point.
People sue for anything.
A guy walks close to the door of X place with a HUGE Saint Bernard kind of dog; tiny dog at the big dog barks, guy having the big dog KICKS the small dog causing bruises to the poor creature...
Guy sues owner of the small dog, for what?
 
Sfork said:
Just recently I heard about some asshat just going around and suing businesses in SF on the radio. I'm all for the concept behind ADA but man it can mess with small businesses.
Click to expand...

When I worked in the restaurant business there was a local lady in a wheel chair that did that. She would roll around town, find violations, then sue. Seemed like most people settled as well. I as well think the concept is good, but i simply detest people that abuse it.
 
Thats the name of the game TODAY. People want something for nothing, they dont care if it closes doors and ruins peoples lives. One of my very good friends is disabled, I asked him about this a couple of times. He think BS and he has one freaking leg! One day along time ago, you could take a
Building Official to lunch and a tee time and your problem would go away. But those days are over. :(
 
Sfork said:
Just recently I heard about some asshat just going around and suing businesses in SF on the radio. I'm all for the concept behind ADA but man it can mess with small businesses.
Click to expand...

There's actually a dude that has a group of people that work the city and the peninsula looking for violations, he sues the shit out of the business and makes good money doing it. He just hit one of our local shopping centers and has cost the owner and the businesses a ton of money for the most minor things, it's unbelievable.
 
That should be a thing for legislators to look into; that's malicious.
My sis opened little over a year ago under her sole ownership and has loans to pay before asking for more loans to fix anything in the store.
That's why my butt is sitting on her chair this week, so she can take a break; no employees, really a "Small Business"
 
I hope you sold Gavin the most expensive stuff you had or at least charged him double. :bigsmile:

I would not rig anything.
Talk to the landlord and see if he will do it.
He has the most to lose in this case.
Also, check with your sister's insurance company and see if she has coverage for this type of problem.
 
He bought a really expensive hair dyer but REALLY REALLY expensive, as in Ferrari designed and used his Black Card (BTW She does not accept AmEx :~ )

Talked to my sister today on the phone, she's aware and said she has been looking into the access ramp if I may put it that way. She'll talk to the landlady, has good relationship with her I believe.

I walked couple blocks on 24th St and quite a few businesses have a full step, not an inch or two bump but a real step; those businesses have been there a long time. The newer businesses do have access; there's a basement shop close to where the old Streetlight Records used to be; how the heck would they be forced to comply? Rise the entire building, hence the basement, to street level?
 
Have you ever seen a lift. It's like an exterior elevator for a wheel chair.
They are ugly as hell but would help you with ADA issues if you had a few steps.
You will just need to ramp the exterior or cut down the floor on the interior and ramp it or a little of both.
 
Bah... Curb side service resolves the issue... just make a binder with products and prices :lol:

Kinkos to the rescue :lol:
 
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