Cali Kid Corals

R2R targeted discrimination

I signed that petition around Christmas, as it was shared on the humblefish forum.

the way David Hammondtree (the owner of R2R) justifies his actions is disgusting, I have found other areas where he puts profit over people, and I don’t believe that is acceptable behavior for someone who claims to be a reverend.

i‘m glad to see others on this forum recognize his bigotry and intolerance for people that don’t meet his approval.
 
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So yeah... if anything this thread taught me that California has anti-discrimination laws, but at the federal level there isn't for LGBTQ+ ... yikes.
It will get worst. Wait till the SCOTUS rule on religious liberty cases.
R2r would not disclosed they are religiously motivated and keep collecting supporting fees and members, then they do shenanigans like this. Most of the group they abused in this topic were supporting members.
Total hypocrisy!
 
They were not. Neither were the trouble makers in the ask the atheist thread last year

The victims don't want their protection to be 'don't post like that again'. Its like blaming women for getting raped.
They are working very hard to delete rainbow posts on their site, but they didn't work hard at all deleting posts attacking other members. They are totally siding with the bullies over the victims.
I can’t speak any further about this specific situation since I was not part of it. I just know I have not observed or had any direct knowledge of any discrimination on the site; nor do I see any discrimination in the R2R response to the situation or it’s policies.

I have not signed the petition because as I read it, the only thing it seeks to change is to allow, “non-sexual discussion threads dedicated to LGBTQ members seeking a common bond.” I don’t see how this is necessary to discuss reefing. Again, please, by all means, get rid of anything not related to reefing. You have to admit though, that some of that extra stuff not about reefing (cats, go carts), doesn’t have the same level of divisiveness.

I also think that boycotting the site would be much more effective than a petition. Start posting threads to start migrating people over to another platform. R2R isn’t the only national reefing forum. If Dave truly is a bigot (I don’t know him well enough to say one way or the other), by definition he won’t change his actions, so a petition will do nothing. Convince enough people to change platforms and it will decrease sponsorship and membership dues and he will lose revenue.

It is obvious that I hold a different opinion about this matter than many other members that have already responded, and that I am in the minority with my line of thinking. I hope that your view of me isn’t tarnished for having a different view point. The only reason I have continued to respond is because the conversation has not swayed to anything disrespectful. It sounds like this was not the case for some individuals on R2R and that is wrong. I would never condone disrespect towards anyone for any reason.
 
I can’t speak any further about this specific situation since I was not part of it. I just know I have not observed or had any direct knowledge of any discrimination on the site; nor do I see any discrimination in the R2R response to the situation or it’s policies.
It is not possible to see such things on that site because they remove them as quickly as they can - you only get the whitewashed/sanitized/make them look good version they present. It is not possible to see reality, when everything you see is controlled and cleaned. There is not conversation to be had about this, as the moderators over there don't respond, but constantly remove posts asking them to respond.
I have not signed the petition because as I read it, the only thing it seeks to change is to allow, “non-sexual discussion threads dedicated to LGBTQ members seeking a common bond.” I don’t see how this is necessary to discuss reefing. Again, please, by all means, get rid of anything not related to reefing. You have to admit though, that some of that extra stuff not about reefing (cats, go carts), doesn’t have the same level of divisiveness.

In my mind, this petition isn't just about putting pressure on Dave (though that would be nice), it is about showing LGBTQ+ reefers that they are not alone, that they are not second class citizens to be brushed under the rug, that they are seen and respected.

I think that other stuff has the exact same level of divisiveness - none at all.

I also think that boycotting the site would be much more effective than a petition. Start posting threads to start migrating people over to another platform. R2R isn’t the only national reefing forum. If Dave truly is a bigot (I don’t know him well enough to say one way or the other), by definition he won’t change his actions, so a petition will do nothing. Convince enough people to change platforms and it will decrease sponsorship and membership dues and he will lose revenue.
That, and more, is happening
It is obvious that I hold a different opinion about this matter than many other members that have already responded, and that I am in the minority with my line of thinking. I hope that your view of me isn’t tarnished for having a different view point. The only reason I have continued to respond is because the conversation has not swayed to anything disrespectful. It sounds like this was not the case for some individuals on R2R and that is wrong. I would never condone disrespect towards anyone for any reason.
Thanks!
 
What bothers me the most is Christians using their religion as a reason to discriminate against the LGBTQ, any other community or person. Christianity is about loving and accepting everyone no matter their flaws, viewpoints or anything. We are all sinners.
Let's not lump all of us Christians together.
We do not all discriminate. You are correct in saying, "Christianity is about loving and accepting everyone no matter their flaws, viewpoints or anything. We are all sinners."
 
Let's not lump all of us Christians together.
We do not all discriminate. You are correct in saying, "Christianity is about loving and accepting everyone no matter their flaws, viewpoints or anything. We are all sinners."
I did not lump them all. I’m a Christian. I simply meant these specific Christians or maybe even just this one.

The problem is wide spread. We Christians are our own worst enemy. So many of us are the definition of hypocrites. This is why I believe so many people have left the faith, or have failed to even give it a shot.

I also realize that every person is a little bit of a hypocrite. The key is realizing it and adjusting.

Anyway, different topic for a different day.
 
I have not signed the petition because as I read it, the only thing it seeks to change is to allow, “non-sexual discussion threads dedicated to LGBTQ members seeking a common bond.” I don’t see how this is necessary to discuss reefing. Again, please, by all means, get rid of anything not related to reefing. You have to admit though, that some of that extra stuff not about reefing (cats, go carts), doesn’t have the same level of divisiveness.

The thing is, it's exactly as you say - go carts and cats have near nothing to do with reefing, and yet those threads ARE 100% ALLOWED, and there's a different standard being applied to threads where LGBTQ+ reefers are trying to connect with each other or share their perspectives with the community. There's absolutely no reason that threads about muscle cars or lady reefers are allowed while threads discussing LGBTQ+ reefers aren't, except the forum owner's personal prejudices. He's trying to marginalize and silence voices that he considers less valuable than a discussion about meatshakes.

The idea with the petition is to say that this guy does NOT speak for the community on this topic, and build awareness among the reefing community that this is happening right under their noses - the owner of one of the most popular reefing forums on the internet is actively deleting or locking threads on the topic, and banning users who confront him on this issue.

You're right that a boycott will be significantly more effective than a petition, and I have no doubt that that's in the works.
 
The thing is, it's exactly as you say - go carts and cats have near nothing to do with reefing, and yet those threads ARE 100% ALLOWED, and there's a different standard being applied to threads where LGBTQ+ reefers are trying to connect with each other or share their perspectives with the community. There's absolutely no reason that threads about muscle cars or lady reefers are allowed while threads discussing LGBTQ+ reefers aren't, except the forum owner's personal prejudices. He's trying to marginalize and silence voices that he considers less valuable than a discussion about meatshakes.

The idea with the petition is to say that this guy does NOT speak for the community on this topic, and build awareness among the reefing community that this is happening right under their noses - the owner of one of the most popular reefing forums on the internet is actively deleting or locking threads on the topic, and banning users who confront him on this issue.

You're right that a boycott will be significantly more effective than a petition, and I have no doubt that that's in the works.
Beautifully put!
 
WOW...was off the the grid for a few days and just now catching up here!

Omar @ofzakaria, thanks for bringing it up here on BAR, and Rich @Thales thanks for speaking out about it. In reading Dave's post on R2R, his views are clear, his rationale for removing these topics is a joke, and (as I have learned somewhat recently) wanting to be silent on it only contributes to the discrimination. I signed the petition as this just pisses me off. I also believe that boycotting R2R would be impactful.
 
hds4216 put this together. So far, it is the most concise thing I have read about the issue. It was posted on r2r and deleted within minutes. It was sent to admins/dave and no response.

"I have a question - are we just not ever allowed to discuss/mention being LGBT+ on this forum? I asked Rev the other day and he said there was no censor of the topic and linked me to a thread of an LGBT reefer in Portland as an example. I believe this would fall under his prior statement of "I do want to clarify that this is not meant to say that someone may not identify their gender identity or sexual orientation," which he mentioned in his response titled "Regarding a recently removed thread". However, this thread was later removed, even after it was shown to me as an example inclusivity.
Furthermore, while Rev notes "The intent of Reef2Reef is to be focused on saltwater reef keeping/aquaria and associated topics", there are numerous threads that clearly violate this statement, including multiple threads devoted to BBQing (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/what’s-on-bbq-tonight-guys.370276/) and (https://www.reef2reef.com/.../bbqing-reefers-whats-on.../). There is also thread that just talks about the Mandalorian (https://www.reef2reef.com/.../the-mandalorian-on-disney.../). Both these threads were started by a mod. Clearly, this is not sufficient justification to justify the removal of LGBT threads.
Next, one could argue that Rev's primary intent was to "prefer to avoid detailed discussion of one's personal beliefs, personal values, social issues, or topics sexual in nature." However, there are numerous threads on this site that also violate this preference and are not removed. Rev himself says in this thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/.../happy-easter-everyone.20533/) "I want to take this post/opportunity and give thanks to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for dying on the cross for me and then being raised again on the third day for the redemption of all man kind. I hope you all take advantage of this free gift of life that is offered only by His death and resurrection." This is clearly an example of "discussion of one's personal beliefs or personal values." There is also an official prayer thread, (https://www.reef2reef.com/.../official-prayer.../page-1) and a women in reefing thread (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/women-in-reefing.712969/). The fact that there is a prayer thread, which necessarily involves “discussion of one's personal beliefs, personal values”, and it’s an official thread, is evidence of this stated reason for removal of LGBT threads being violated.
There are also threads like this (https://www.reef2reef.com/.../new-tank-for-religious.../) which discuss wanting to create a Christian themed tank. In a direct counterpoint, would I be able to create a thread titled "New LGBT themed tank". If so, what is the distinction between these two threads that makes the first acceptable and the second unacceptable?
You have all removed these notable threads, and likely a lot more:
https://www.reef2reef.com/.../s...ng-reefers-but.../latest
https://www.reef2reef.com/.../any-lgbtq-rainbow-reefers.../
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lgbtq.785283/post-8336004
https://www.reef2reef.com/.../we-need-your-help.../latest
https://www.reef2reef.com/.../i-love-being-discriminated.../
https://www.reef2reef.com/.../queer-reefer-in-portland.../
Some of these threads have no more justification for being removed than any of the other threads on here that I mention prior. There is clearly a lack of communication here as to the official standards or guidelines by which moderators act, and I hope for some clarification.
Thanks, and happy new year."
 
The more am learning about the forum and how its run by the owner the more I feel repulsed and disgusted.

- mods are ok with antisemitism rhetorics in posts, no ban, no red flag, owner quietly modified the posts and made it look good.
- discriminate against LGBTQ community
- delet and lock posts so he hid history and facts then he write his facts..
All that, yet they are such a big forum that represent the hobby and host most of the vendors of this hobby...
So bizzar and sad...
 
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Well, I happened to log in today.........after many weeks of not checking in, and here is this post. Kinda crazy, and pretty damn cool.

A few of you know me, and have probably met my husband, Ron. I joined the club many years ago, and have to admit I was very timid about a group that was so far out of my comfort zone. We gays (said totally as a joke, as I certainly don’t speak for the gay community) tend to stick together to keep it safe and comfortable. Ron and I attended several meetings together, but it was mostly me that got involved. I believe that was a coping mechanism to make it easier for me to feel accepted in the group. Just a lifetime of fear and insecurities coming out in subtle ways.

This group was an incredible resource and sounding board as I built my dream tank. While my sexuality technically has NOTHING to do with reefing, it has a LOT to do with me, and how I feel entering a group of total strangers. What I found with this group, was that there were a lot of shy people, reaching out to total strangers. It was very comforting to see that not everyone can walk into a room and be completely relaxed. LOL!

Everyone was welcoming and forthcoming with information. As I got more involved, the inevitable started to happen. Reefers coming over to our house, to either help out, or trade coral, or borrow or bring equipment. It was tough for us to let people into our home without knowing there actual opinion about US. Ha! That might seem strange, but my house is MY HOUSE!! GET THE F OUT if you don’t like it. LOL! Don’t take this too serious, I’m writing this with a very appreciative and light heart. I’m just pointing out that it is a huge step for us to do this.

One particular issue was the first “Tank Tour” that came to our house. I was very stressed out that I might be letting someone in, that could potentially disrespect us in our own home. Luckily, we met some very cool people, who were always respectful to both Ron and I. It was a wonderful experience to share our hard work with people who really appreciated it.

Someone stated that the topic “Any LBGTQ reefers out there?” (I don’t recall the exact title) had nothing to do with reefing. I have to disagree....... I have no doubt that the thread would have formed friendships very specific to reefing. Knowing there are others out there would definitely make me more comfortable. It’s just a fact.

With that said, I happen to work in a situation that I am generally the ONLY one. LOL! This has been fantastic for me, because I have found that most often, it’s only me that cares about it. It has made me much more comfortable with who I am, and less worried about what others think. That is my personal journey though. Maybe it has taken me much longer to reach this point than most? Either way, I think this thread alone may have made others feel more welcome, just like it did me.

This is a very long winded way to say......

THANKS! [emoji120][emoji869][emoji3060][emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Well, I happened to log in today.........after many weeks of not checking in, and here is this post. Kinda crazy, and pretty damn cool.

A few of you know me, and have probably met my husband, Ron. I joined the club many years ago, and have to admit I was very timid about a group that was so far out of my comfort zone. We gays (said totally as a joke, as I certainly don’t speak for the gay community) tend to stick together to keep it safe and comfortable. Ron and I attended several meetings together, but it was mostly me that got involved. I believe that was a coping mechanism to make it easier for me to feel accepted in the group. Just a lifetime of fear and insecurities coming out in subtle ways.

This group was an incredible resource and sounding board as I built my dream tank. While my sexuality technically has NOTHING to do with reefing, it has a LOT to do with me, and how I feel entering a group of total strangers. What I found with this group, was that there were a lot of shy people, reaching out to total strangers. It was very comforting to see that not everyone can walk into a room and be completely relaxed. LOL!

Everyone was welcoming and forthcoming with information. As I got more involved, the inevitable started to happen. Reefers coming over to our house, to either help out, or trade coral, or borrow or bring equipment. It was tough for us to let people into our home without knowing there actual opinion about US. Ha! That might seem strange, but my house is MY HOUSE!! GET THE F OUT if you don’t like it. LOL! Don’t take this too serious, I’m writing this with a very appreciative and light heart. I’m just pointing out that it is a huge step for us to do this.

One particular issue was the first “Tank Tour” that came to our house. I was very stressed out that I might be letting someone in, that could potentially disrespect us in our own home. Luckily, we met some very cool people, who were always respectful to both Ron and I. It was a wonderful experience to share our hard work with people who really appreciated it.

Someone stated that the topic “Any LBGTQ reefers out there?” (I don’t recall the exact title) had nothing to do with reefing. I have to disagree....... I have no doubt that the thread would have formed friendships very specific to reefing. Knowing there are others out there would definitely make me more comfortable. It’s just a fact.

With that said, I happen to work in a situation that I am generally the ONLY one. LOL! This has been fantastic for me, because I have found that most often, it’s only me that cares about it. It has made me much more comfortable with who I am, and less worried about what others think. That is my personal journey though. Maybe it has taken me much longer to reach this point than most? Either way, I think this thread alone may have made others feel more welcome, just like it did me.

This is a very long winded way to say......

THANKS! [emoji120][emoji869][emoji3060][emoji41]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just think if we were crappy like r2r one of the best tanks in our club (probably my favorite) wouldn’t Be part of our club! Glad you took the risks and stuck with it kris!
 
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