Tell me this is not ich!

Discussion in 'Fish and Invertebrates' started by Nav, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    I could live with it as long as the fish are comfortable. I travel a lot and can't take chances of fish dying when I'm away.

    These diseases are so unpredictable to know when to stop. Cos stopping with what I have doesn't mean diseases won't get in anymore.

    Thats the other problem... QTing fish is one thing, but if cysts could get in via coral or other inverts, its crazy to have a mirror system (with the right light, params, etc) to QT coral!

    Now I'm starting to think a nano tank with 2 fish and lots of coral might have been a better fit for me. Contrary to the norms of reef keepers upgrading to larger tanks :)
  2. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Tips on this anyone??
  3. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    Your tank is not that big
    Tear the tank apart if need be
    If the fish won't come out of the rock, QT the whole rock
    Rubbermaid bind on the floor with heater and air stone will work for QT sys.
    Remember, the fish did not ask to be yours.
    But it is now your duty as caretaker to do what is necessary...
  4. Coral reefer

    Coral reefer President

    Can chloroquine phosphate be used in a fish only setting? If so maybe remove corals and inverts to a temporary setting a treat in your tank?
  5. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Good idea but CP has to be removed after the treatment and I guess there's no way to do that...
  6. neuro

    neuro Webmaster

    What may help, is having a UV filter.This won't help for anything that doesn't get exposed to the UV, and won't help if it's already on your fish. It may be worth spending some time researching one.
    Nav likes this.
  7. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    You might want to look up the bucket/tank transfer method.
    It is something pretty easy to do in a small space and is really cheap.
    Nav likes this.
  8. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean live with it in that the fish would be comfortable, I mean live with it in knowing that you can and probably will lose fish to disease due to you not being able to deal with a second tank to treat/watch incoming animals. Basically again telling you that there is no magic bullet to treat diseases in a full coral reef tank.

    But they're not unpredictable, you either have them in your system or you don't. If you have them, they can pop up if fish get stressed and immune systems get compromised. If you don't have them, you won't get them if you don't put any new stuff in tank. If you have a tank running for a months with no signs of disease you may be in the clear. If you want a fish and don't want to QT the fish then that clock starts back at zero as far as how long it's been as to whether or not you have diseases. You mentioned the last fish you had was 3 weeks ago. That's well within the life cycle of some common parasites, so it could have come from that, it could have also have already been in your system and something just stressed out the fish (and now it got compromised).

    Not really that crazy, ignore fish, well there are some nasty coral parasites out there too, and some people have frag tanks as well. And you don't have to have a mirror system, just a system that can keep things alive for a period of time. Fish system, doesn't need to have as high a specific gravity, coral system, just get water moving around with some minor lights they'll survive. Of course another school of thought is forget it and simply go with coral dips hoping that kills any buggies (I'm not sure if it will kill ich cysts and what not), and put them in your tank.

    Well you have to realize the "norm" of upgrading to larger tanks means EVERYTHING needs to upgrade. If you had a nano and went to a 120g tank you are not going to get away with 2 gallon water changes every week, so you have to change what you do if you expect similar results. If you put every fish in that you want at the beginning and nothing shows signs of disease after a couple months I think you're in the clear to just sit back and relax, but if you want to put in one fish one month, another fish 3 months down the road, well you're risking all the other fish in your tank unless you quarantine incoming fish, if you had a nano with 2 fish... not as big of a deal, if both fish die then you lost 2 fish, wait a period to let whatever kill them die off in your tank, and start over.

    Look, I know it might seem like people are ragging on you for what you're expecting, but we're not. We're all reefers and most of us probably have had similar issues at one time or another, and were simply trying to point you in directions that are known to work.

    FYI, I was told CP does break down in sunlight, so it's not like copper where it stays infused into your tank for all eternity.
    Nav likes this.
  9. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Here's what I've heard so far:
    • Brooklynella
    • Flukes
    • Ich
    • Lymphocytes
    • Uronema
    • Frogspawn Stings
    Suggested fixes:
    • Freshwater dip for 2-3min
    • QT for 6 weeks with CP & reef fallow
    • Getting Blenny, Corris Wrasse & Diamond Goby out
    Is it ok to QT 5 fish in a 10gal? Weekly 5gal water changes with 10ml Prime everyday?
  10. brleong

    brleong Supporting Member

    before rushing into too much here... do your other fish show any symptoms? is it just the clowns? a fish trap will easily catch the clowns, or a big net. A fish trap has a good chance to catch the others also. one thing you could do is to cut off the end of a soda bottle, tie a string to the opening area and throw some food in there. when the fish go in, then pull the string up quickly and the fish will be in there and unharmed.
  11. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    The varied responses show how hard it is to diagnose, especially from a couple of pictures.
    And the fun parts:
    The wrong treatment will be ineffective.
    Many treatments are just "less" poisonous to the fish.

    Five tiny peaceful fish are probably ok.
    But a weekly 5 gallon change sounds bad.
    Remember : QT does not have a bio-filter, so you need a lot more water changes.
    Ammonia accumulates FAST.
    If it is that over-crowded already, 2-3 gallons every day might be more like it.
    But don't estimate/guess/listen to us - TEST.
    Test for ammonia + nitrite daily. Keep levels very low.
    Coral reefer likes this.
  12. brleong

    brleong Supporting Member

    Mark is correct. you need to change water VERY often. I had 2 fish in a 5 g QT and i needed to change water pretty much every day to every other day. 5 in a 5g would for sure warrant everyday. also remember that you need to aerate and heat the tank too. the fish will die if you do not aerate and get oxygen into the water.
  13. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Daily salt mixing (with RO from store) & daily water changes for 6 weeks... Now that's pretty intense ;)
  14. FeliciaLynn

    FeliciaLynn Supporting Member

    You might be able to decrease water changes to every couple days if you dose bacteria every few days to help lower ammonia and nitrates. Also, I'd recommend running a HOB filter with a nice big sponge in it or some biological media to help keep the water quality acceptable. You can't run carbon or GFO since it will pull out the medication, but a sponge or biomedia would be just fine. Oh, and they made these stick on ammonia meters that you put on the tank glass so you can keep track of the water quality. You may want to get one of those, since I think they come in handy for hospital tanks.
    Nav likes this.
  15. FeliciaLynn

    FeliciaLynn Supporting Member

  16. aqua-nut

    aqua-nut Supporting Member

    Glad we cleared it up for you! ;)

    Truth is without direct examination and perhaps the use of microscope, we are all guessing. Pick a course of action, cross your fingers and hope.

    If you cannot do any QT/HT, then hope it's Lympho, FS stings. Feed the fish well and add vitamins, selcon or such. It might help. Try to keep the water as clean and stable as possible. This is really a 'do nothing' option with emphasis on good husbandry.

    If you can catch and QT, treating with PraziPro for flukes is not usually hard on a fish. FW dip is a possible start to that line of treatment. It knocks back any pests it can get to and might give the fish a small rest before more return.

    Brook, ich and Uronema might be treated with CP. CP is lots less lethal to most fish (reportedly not Wrasses) than most other treatments other than Tank Transfer. Brook and Uronema are very lethal and if not treated quickly fish usually die. They are all helped by FW dip. Not cured, just helped. I'd start with just the CF. Perhaps doing TT if you don't have CP. All you need is two 5g buckets, heater and air stone (2).
    Nav likes this.
  17. brleong

    brleong Supporting Member

    the daily water changes arent that tough especially with a small volume. you'd only be changing like 1-2 gallons a day and you can have it all pre-mixed in buckets for a few week at a time.
  18. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Brian, RedSea Coral Pro shouldn't be kept mixed for more than 4hrs.

    But I'll probably have to get some cheaper salt for this ;)
  19. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics Supporting Member

    Shouldn't be kept mixed for more than 4 hours? What about what's in your tank? Hasn't that already been kept mixed for more than 4 hours?? :)
    bluprntguy likes this.
  20. Nav

    Nav Director of Marketing & Photography

    Lol, RSCP has those instructions... I heard it's related to precipitation

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