Hyposalinity

[spuri87]

I created a thread not that long ago talking about my struggles with white spots on fish which I initially thought were mucus cones and thought will subside once the stressor goes away.. There were a few members here who correctly escalated the problem but it wasnt until I lost my PBT to it, that the urgency went to the next level.. The day I lost the powder blue, I saw Blue tang in the same location, right in front of the wavemaker, where PBT was hanging around in its last few days.. I saw white spots on my clowns too and that's when I decided to take action (should have done in sooner in hindsight).. I moved the Blue tang and Clowns to a separate 15g tank and treated them with Copper at 2.25 until I saw no spots on any of these fish.. meanwhile, all other fish in my DT looked happy and healthy.. I moved the 3 fish back to DT after 21 days as suggested by few folks on different forums and everything looked good!

A few days later, I saw clowns, cardinals and blue tang with few spots, bubble eyes and very lethargic, yet again! At this point, tired after managing copper in QT, changing water with life going full throttle in parallel, I felt like this will keep going in circles unless I remove ich from my tank, for which the recommendation is to go fallow for over 2 months.. OR try Hypo!

I read and watched a lot of videos on hypo-salinity and decided to try that in my DT. I have no inverts and a very few corals that I moved to a separate 5g tank, so the decision was a little easier than to move all the fish and treat them together in another tank.

I replaced saltwater in my 230g tank with RODI water slowly, over a period of 3 days, to bring down the salinity from 1.025--> 1.019--> 1.014--> 1.009. Each time I had to replace around 30-35g water.

I am creating this thread as a journal, since I am at day 1 of Hyposalinity in DT. Also, would like a 2nd eye from the experienced folks in this group to keep things in check. Also attaching a few pics of how my fish looked like (at different stages of ich)..

I really hope that all this effort doesnt go in vain.. Will update the thread daily #needgoodvibes

 

[Turkeysammich]

Hypo salinity is an old school method. I’ve done it years and years ago. Let me see what I can remember off the top of my head. The way you want to use it is not great. Here is why.
It will kill all of your inverts , crabs, cuc, etc. since you already into hypo. Let’s talk about how you should go about it. If you had a good cuc and they died. Your aquarium will cycle. Keep an eye on ammonia. To be successful in irradiation of ick velvet flukes. You’ll need to go 4-6-8 weeks. The cyst are not effected by hypo. Thus the long amount of time. In that time you need to be in hypo constantly. If you fall out of hypo. It technically resets itself. You need a calibrated salinity checker. What ever that might be. It’s gotta be spot on. If you are gonna do that. You should have just gone fallow for 76 days.
Your fish have a bad case of ick. If you’re gonna do copper power. Go up and down slowly. Once you get to 1.75 you’re technically in the therapeutic zone. 2.5 is max. You’ll need to be in the therapeutic zone for 14-30 days. Watch your ammonia in qt. It can kill your fish if it moves up too high. Some fish don’t do well at all with copper and it can kill them. Check humble.fish.

 

[spuri87]

Thanks @Turkeysammich.. I dont have any inverts and very few corals that I moved to another smaller tank which is easier than moving all the fish and going fallow for more than 2 months..

I have no inverts and a very few corals that I moved to a separate 5g tank, so the decision was a little easier than to move all the fish and treat them together in another tank.

yes, constantly checking ammonia and salinity, pH also reduces coz RODI water has lower pH than saltwater, but thats not necessarily a bad thing as that reduces harmful ammonia.. so keeping it around 7.6-7.8.. I believe keeping salinity at 1.009 with ATO should not be challenging, its the same way as we keep the salinity at 1.026 constantly (unless I am missing something pretty basic).. I have hanna and a refractometer calibrated with Accurasea.. ich should fall off in 3-7 days from today (fingers crossed) and then flukes may need another 25-30 days.. Increasing Salinity has to be slower than decreasing as I read, but thats for later.. I am fully committed to this method right now, and after trying Copper and managing that in another Smaller tank, I feel this might be easier to manage, but only time will tell

 

[Turkeysammich]

You said copper. You do know there’s different kinds of copper right ? When I talk copper. I’m talking about copper power.
When I say cuc. I’m talking about everything. Bristle worms, chitons, etc. they will all die.

 

[spuri87]

yes, I tried Copper Power at 2.25 in a Hospital tank for 21 days on Blue tang and 2 clowns and then moved them back to DT, but a couple of days later white spots reappeared implying ich has to be eliminated from DT basically, hence trying Hypo in DT now.. also getting UV which may help long term

 

[MichaelB]

yes, I tried Copper Power at 2.25 in a Hospital tank for 21 days on Blue tang and 2 clowns and then moved them back to DT, but a couple of days later white spots reappeared implying ich has to be eliminated from DT basically, hence trying Hypo in DT now.. also getting UV which may help long term

You would have had to treat all fish not just a few, and have the display fallow for 72 days. After treating a fish they are weak and easily reinfected. The goal isn't just to get fish where you won't see ich, but totally eradicate it all.

Some people just mange the ich meaning it's always in their system. Meaning any new fish could be susceptible to it, while existing fish may become more restiant to it,. Random future outbreaks without apparent causes are always possible when ut comes to management route verse eradication.

From the little reading I did about this method what @Turkeysammich mentioned about salinity being perfectly maintained, I would not trust something this important to a hanna salinity checker. [[You keep salinity at .009 for 2 months drift up to .010 even once and it restarts the clock, you may never even know it happen]]( the Hannah salinity checker is mainly what I use on all my tanks) to me if kept calibrated it's good enough for day to day to prevent swings during water changes. It's totally not good enough for what your intended use. Maybe consider a tropic marin hydrometer something considered by many here to be the most accurate method to a home hobbyist beyond scientific type laboratory equipment.

*I actually have one you could borrow it long term if of intrest. Otherwise they are fairly cheap $34 avg right now with black Friday sales if you wanna plan to pick up your own.*
(They are bigger than you would expect glass and something you really wouldn't wanna drop yet I've heard extremely accurate and never need calibration)

I personally got it just to have a legitimate method to verify my salinity testing methods should the need ever arise.

 

[spuri87]

thanks much for the offer @MichaelB.. I do have 2 salinity meters, but guess another check wont hurt just to be sure.. I read about TM hydrometer being the most accurate.. I will sync up with you offline to pick that up for a month or 2 (bringing up salinity is going to be another challenging task later on, as it has to be super slow.. fish do better when salinity goes down, but not so well when going back up, so it has to be super slow.. may just top off with high salinity water, but thats for later)

 

[Slingfox]

I echo @MichaelB that you should not rely on a Hanna salinity checker. It is not reliably accurate (I have been through three of them and still have one sitting in the cabinet beneath my tank). The TM Hydrometer is widely cited as gold standard. I personally use a VeeGee Refractometer most often. It is not cheap but worth every penny. It is consistent with my periodic ICPs.

 

[MichaelB]

thanks much for the offer @MichaelB.. I do have 2 salinity meters, but guess another check wont hurt just to be sure.. I read about TM hydrometer being the most accurate.. I will sync up with you offline to pick that up for a month or 2 (bringing up salinity is going to be another challenging task later on, as it has to be super slow.. fish do better when salinity goes down, but not so well when going back up, so it has to be super slow.. may just top off with high salinity water, but thats for later)

Be sure to review & follow the hypo method on humble fish site it's the article I briefly read through, this guy knows his stuff. I would doubt other sources personally without a serious track record as lots of folks make crap up or say things someone else said without any experience or legitimate knowledge on subject. Like believing something posted on social media - not a smart idea.

 

[spuri87]

Be sure to review & follow the hypo method on humble fish site it's the article I briefly read through, this guy knows his stuff. I would doubt other sources personally without a serious track record as lots of folks make crap up or say things someone else said without any experience or legitimate knowledge on subject. Like believing something posted on social media - not a smart idea.

Yep, that’s my source! There are 2 articles I followed, 1 by HumbleFish and another one by Jay on R2R.. and then searched the internet and talked to GPT to find what works best.. the 2 articles mostly overlap, except minor differences

 

[PjFish]

If your 100% sure its ich since OST will not work on internal parasites or bacterial and fungal infections. Hopefully you don’t have the OST (hypo salinity) resistant ich!
There have been numerous cases of ich transmission from tanks that are just even in close proximity to one another so make sure you rinse everything in hot water and disinfectant. Better yet keep all equipment and testing equipment separate that are used on ur smaller coral invert qt which will be 75 days but still disinfect everything routinely ..Importantly hands & wet towels used! Was thinking since your tank is so new just do a reset on the DT breaking down bleaching drying everything out but by the time thats done your hypo time frame may have been already finished so worth a shot!
May want to reconsider a different LFS that helped get you into this position in the first place! Yes in the end falls on the individual to do their own research! But as a new hobbyist dishing out alot of $$$ trusting the LFS to order everything and setting everything up right. Some responsibly falls on the LFS who cycled your tank and most likely knew the fish they held for you had ich or something since they were dying off in their facility before adding to your tank! At least should have warned you of potential parasite risks!
Anyhow glad your still going strong and not deterred from quitting since this may have eventually happened in the long run like many other hobbyists are dealing with…
Oh not sure what articles you read regarding hypo but this ones from an old school site been around a long time.. Bob Fenner (rip) past away back in 2020 so not sure whose running it now or just autopilot but its been around well before any of the current forums
Have a great Holiday!

Wet Web Media articles

hypoOSTtherapyart.htm

Related FAQ’s

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[SupraSaltyReefer]

Hope the hyposalinity works out for you.....

More importantly, what's your plan to keep ich and other diseases out of your tank moving forward? If you don't have the discipline to QT absolutely EVERYTHING that touches your water than this will all be in vain.

If not, maybe ich management might be the better route.

 

[spuri87]

thanks @PjFish you always have some solid points.. Yeah, there is a possibility that there may still be some flukes/ich that are hypo-resistant but heard thats rare.. I hope thats not the case with me.. Well, even if it is, I am not tired of trying and learning new things.. will fix it when it happens Just hoping hypo acts as a bleach on my DT and cleans it of all parasites! Corals are in a hospital tank in different room to avoid spreading air borne diseases.. I will read more about Hypo in the link you shared, thank you!

@SupraSaltyReefer There are some things we only learn with experience, and adding livestock the 'right' way is something I learnt from all this.. I am pretty sure the fish came with the disease they acquired at my LFS, and I should have probably taken additional steps BEFORE adding them to the tank, but I still dont blame my LFS alone since they were super helpful during the entire process, saving me money and time.. but again, there are only handful LFS who follow the right QT process so who knows choosing some other LFS might have resulted in the same issues.. I am a firm believer in learning from the past and investing in the future.. I will start practicing Ich Management (bought aquaUV 57W and a lot of different kind of dry and frozen food along with Vitachem, Selcon, Lipo-Garlic etc as supplements).. tbh, I still dont know how to QT corals and inverts and even if its necessary as I read mixed sentiments from real hobbyists but I am certainly not putting a new fish in my tank with putting them through Copper / HTTM for 1 month, once I get through this

 

[MichaelB]

thanks @PjFish you always have some solid points.. Yeah, there is a possibility that there may still be some flukes/ich that are hypo-resistant but heard thats rare.. I hope thats not the case with me.. Well, even if it is, I am not tired of trying and learning new things.. will fix it when it happens Just hoping hypo acts as a bleach on my DT and cleans it of all parasites! Corals are in a hospital tank in different room to avoid spreading air borne diseases.. I will read more about Hypo in the link you shared, thank you!

@SupraSaltyReefer There are some things we only learn with experience, and adding livestock the 'right' way is something I learnt from all this.. I am pretty sure the fish came with the disease they acquired at my LFS, and I should have probably taken additional steps BEFORE adding them to the tank, but I still dont blame my LFS alone since they were super helpful during the entire process, saving me money and time.. but again, there are only handful LFS who follow the right QT process so who knows choosing some other LFS might have resulted in the same issues.. I am a firm believer in learning from the past and investing in the future.. I will start practicing Ich Management (bought aquaUV 57W and a lot of different kind of dry and frozen food along with Vitachem, Selcon, Lipo-Garlic etc as supplements).. tbh, I still dont know how to QT corals and inverts and even if its necessary as I read mixed sentiments from real hobbyists but I am certainly not putting a new fish in my tank with putting them through Copper / HTTM for 1 month, once I get through this

Same as a follow period keep inverts and coral in a separate tank with zero new additions for 72 days.

Add new coral or new snails it restarts the clock. Not many go to this extreme. But if you have tons of coral. Loaded up with fish it wouldn't be extreme in the least. Kinda up to how far you take it. Adding anything to a existing tank is a major risk. Things work right up until they don’t.

I haven't qt coral or snails, but I could actually see myself doing it once things are wheren I want them.

 

[spuri87]

Same as a follow period keep inverts and coral in a separate tank with zero new additions for 72 days.

Add new coral or new snails it restarts the clock. Not many go to this extreme. But if you have tons of coral. Loaded up with fish it wouldn't be extreme in the least. Kinda up to how far you take it. Adding anything to a existing tank is a major risk. Things work right up until they don’t.

I haven't qt coral or snails, but I could actually see myself doing it once things are wheren I want them.

thanks Michael, yes ideally ALL new additions should be QTed, but how many people (specially the successful and experienced ones here including you) actually QT inverts and corals is the real question.. maybe a poll will be helpful

 

[spuri87]

Hypo (Day 2):

I see cardinal fish has lesser spots and eye look much better too.. I see Blue tang's eye is still cloudy and feels like its impacting its vision as I could see it try to bite nori from 1-2 cms away.. It is still not its bubbly self and hiding more.. but hvnt seen any scratching from any of the fish in last 2 days which I guess is good news.. Both clowns still have white spots and have stringy mucus coming out of their body, maybe just the ich parasite or maybe Brook? it was eating well today in the morning, but hiding a little more now..will keep monitoring.. attaching today's pics

Ammonia - 0
pH - 7.6
Salinity - 1.009

 

[MichaelB]

thanks Michael, yes ideally ALL new additions should be QTed, but how many people (specially the successful and experienced ones here including you) actually QT inverts and corals is the real question.. maybe a poll will be helpful

Some here actual do. I don't officially do it as mentioned above but my main sps tank, and nem tank, I'm very rarely willing to add things to either of them (only would take the risk from certain members, vendors/ lfs). Without going into frag tank first.

For me it's an observation period of sorts. Verse full qt. If anything looks odd or funny when dipping and inspecting it doesn’t go into my main tanks.

If see anything off at a fish store, I won’t buy anything so there is also being very selective in what I get as well. Not at all fool proof and I occasionally gamble with addtions, yet I try to ensure I'm never just plain reckless lol.

A dead fish in a tank - I won't take anything from that entire system. You see odd algae or dinos, cyano, fish with spots, fin damage, swimming funny, pests flatworms or the like in any tank, I wouldn't buy anything from their systems assuming they have reef herps or something I wouldn't want. I also ask to see fish eat etc.

 

[spuri87]

love the guide and checklist before getting new livestock! thanks @MichaelB

 

[spuri87]

Hypo (Day 3):

Cardinal doesnt have cloudy eye anymore and very minimal white spots.. Clowns still seem to have similar (or maybe a little more?) number of white spots, but that stringy mucus seems to have reduced.. Blue tang still struggling to see, always faces me and the food with the same side, didnt even get to see right side of his face in last couple of days.. I am adding Garlic Guard and Lipo-Garlic to all the food to help him smell and eat, but I can see it struggling to find and eat food from the water column (tried both small C2 TDO pellets as well as big PE mysis).. it knows where nori is kept, so comes and eats that happily.. Pics from today

@MichaelB was gracious enough to lend me a spare light for my coral tank and his TM Hydrometer, but we both didnt know that the hydrometer can only check salinity from 1.021 to 1.031 lol.. Will use it to check saltwater in my barrels and will compare against my other 2 salinity checkers.. All major water params are in check.

 

[Slingfox]

thanks @PjFish you always have some solid points.. Yeah, there is a possibility that there may still be some flukes/ich that are hypo-resistant but heard thats rare.. I hope thats not the case with me.. Well, even if it is, I am not tired of trying and learning new things.. will fix it when it happens Just hoping hypo acts as a bleach on my DT and cleans it of all parasites! Corals are in a hospital tank in different room to avoid spreading air borne diseases.. I will read more about Hypo in the link you shared, thank you!

@SupraSaltyReefer There are some things we only learn with experience, and adding livestock the 'right' way is something I learnt from all this.. I am pretty sure the fish came with the disease they acquired at my LFS, and I should have probably taken additional steps BEFORE adding them to the tank, but I still dont blame my LFS alone since they were super helpful during the entire process, saving me money and time.. but again, there are only handful LFS who follow the right QT process so who knows choosing some other LFS might have resulted in the same issues.. I am a firm believer in learning from the past and investing in the future.. I will start practicing Ich Management (bought aquaUV 57W and a lot of different kind of dry and frozen food along with Vitachem, Selcon, Lipo-Garlic etc as supplements).. tbh, I still dont know how to QT corals and inverts and even if its necessary as I read mixed sentiments from real hobbyists but I am certainly not putting a new fish in my tank with putting them through Copper / HTTM for 1 month, once I get through this

Glad to hear you plan to up your QT game!

I currently medicated QT all my fish for at least a month. For coral I am pretty selective with what I add. When I do add the coral sits on a frag rack for at least a month and I dip in KCl once a week (dip I use for both softies and SPS). I don’t quarantine inverts but will likely do so going forward even though I don’t look forward to it. I hope to have a small second tank for coral quarantine purposes but I won’t have the budget for it anytime soon so I have to walk the tightrope till then . . .