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We will be receiving 20 yellow tangs this morning. BAR discounts still apply. Also receiving 20 clams in 3 different sizes.

Playing devils advocate again. In the wild only about 1% of yellow tangs born reach maturity. For a yellow tang to get to 28 years old it is very lucky and thus it was cared for appropriately.

I concede. You're totally correct. Indonesia is incentivised to keep it's waters pristine due to it's food fisheries and tourism which greatly depends on it's coral reefs but our hobby itself does not contribute greatly. Indonesia is the #1 exporter of ornamental fish and second largest of...

The tourism does. But the point is that the fisheries are very important which include the reefs and the ornamental fish we keep.

Why wouldn't food fish be taken into consideration? The majority of their food fish is from the ocean which need to be sustained.

Response of Indonesia’s Fisheries GDP to Interest Rates, Inflation, ExchangeRates and Fisheries Sector Performance: A Blue Economy Perspective States 2.7% of the GDP is from its fisheries and an addition 5%+ from tourism. That's HUGE. Compared to the US where only 5.6% of the GDP is from all...

I agree but will still play devils advocate: The largest private contributor to wetland protection and waterfowl management is Ducks Unlimited, a hunting group. By putting commercial emphasis on a natural resource that natural resource is more likely to be managed responsibly. Going back to...

Good point! Sources of coral and fish vary widely. What countries to people trust ethical collection from? I would say Indonesia is one of the better sources after they had their shutdown. They now prioritized mariculture over wild collection and a % of the sales goes back to...

Great idea! I have also started a new thread regarding the ethics of husbandry here: https://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/ethical-husbandry-a-discussion.39196/#post-560880

I really like this line: "Ethical discussions can feel like an infinite regress – every time you feel like you have a handle on things, you realize that there is more that you don’t have a handle on.". The more you know the more you know you don't know.

I think it would be great to have a discussion on what constitutes ethical husbandry. This is a very opinion based subject with very few true right and wrongs. I am interested in your opinions on what you personally believe to be ethical treatment of saltwater livestock and why. I would like...

Quite the slippery slope to all of this. I have faith in the members of this community and their abilities and choices. There is nothing a hobbiest cant do that fish store owners can.

This conversation is specifically regarding me preordering mariculture SPS colonies and preordering yellow tangs/clams from Biota. BAYMAC is stating that it is unethical for me to sell SPS colonies the night they arrive nor to sell Biota tangs the morning they arrive (in their original bag - no...

I guess I dont see the difference in ethics between direct from source to end consumer versus source to store and then consumer. If the fish traveled poorly to the point it is going to die thats horrible but whether it dies in a store tank or a hobbiests qt makes no difference ethically. Bad...

You're saying importing coral and fish isn't ethical? Isn't that how 95% of all coral and fish come to market? I dont understand what you're arguing - that this shouldn't be a hobby at all? Or only US based tank raised fish and coral? Biota orders and coral orders are separate. Separate...

The coral comes direct from Indonesia to SFO where I pick it up. Biota and coral shipments are completely separate. Coral is not coming from biota. Biota pickups are for just fish and clams. Those are biota to store and then must be picked up right away as well. We import both coral and...

They dont stay in the bag any longer though... thats why sps pickup is at midnight. Thats when it arrives at the store. People pick it out of the box as soon as we receive it. Indo to SFO to the store and they literally grab the livestock the second the box comes in the door.

I don't understand how this is so. How is going directly to the customer versus into my tanks any different for the fish/coral? This is assuming that customers take worse care of the livestock? I would argue that going direct to the customer is better than bouncing from the farm, to the...

I assume I pissed off another store that someone on the BOD is friends with. That's all I can think of. Not trying to start drama though.

The BOD has told me that I will no longer be able to post preorders and group buys. Follow my facebook page for Biota and import news. https://www.facebook.com/ClearWaterAquariumCA