Kessil

Clear Water Aquarium -California is killing us

My dad ran a LFS specializing in Japanese koi..quit his day job of 20 years as a designer for Sony and followed his dream. He only imported the best, and hand picked each one in japan twice a year. I still remember running down to SFO to help pick up the shipments and acclimate hundreds to his above ground pond setups.

Rent in the east bay is robbery .he's since closed up shop and ran it out of the backyard.

Sadly, it's easy to fail and get priced out like this. Support your LFS folks.
 
finalphaze987 said:
My dad ran a LFS specializing in Japanese koi..quit his day job of 20 years as a designer for Sony and followed his dream. He only imported the best, and hand picked each one in japan twice a year. I still remember running down to SFO to help pick up the shipments and acclimate hundreds to his above ground pond setups.

Rent in the east bay is robbery .he's since closed up shop and ran it out of the backyard.

Sadly, it's easy to fail and get priced out like this. Support your LFS folk
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Great way to launder money, or show losses, but not so great to make money.
 
CA - one party system = Communist. And they can do whatever they want.
And ppl continue to believe all these BS from them.
I went to Katy Texas and saw brand new house for 300k, full single family brand new. Same country, even excluding the land price difference. what makes it cost so much more in here. BS regulation, licensing. gov BS
 
dioworld said:
CA - one party system = Communist. And they can do whatever they want.
And ppl continue to believe all these BS from them.
I went to Katy Texas and saw brand new house for 300k, full single family brand new. Same country, even excluding the land price difference. what makes it cost so much more in here. BS regulation, licensing. gov BS
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Labor cost is the big big difference. Skilled trades make way more money here.
 
iani said:
Labor cost is the big big difference. Skilled trades make way more money here.
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texas houston is not cheap either, perhaps 100k+ fees to city without doing anything cut that down might help
not counting those reinspection, minor fix, reinspection, and reinspection that jack up the contractor hour .
 
I'll never forget a Rich Ross talk on the Queen Mary in Long Beach ( its was sometime ago but pretty sure it was Rich ) and he asked Do you know how to make a million dollars in this business ? He answered start with 2 million. I've also had friends who ran fish store in Vegas and each one lasted about a year. To those who have their own businesses I tip my hat to you.
 
iani said:
Labor cost is the big big difference. Skilled trades make way more money here.
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Well during covid prices went crazy in skilled labor.. Contractors raised their labor prices without question since most homeowners didn’t bat an eye plus didn’t and don’t know quality work that lasts! And now days its the opposite you “don’t get what you pay for”compared to “you get what you pay for” as in if you use a more expensive company the work will be better lol..Man Ive seen some hideous work done by expensive contractors!! And great work from the cheaper ones last few several years. Grew up in the family business as a mason contractor. Myself, Dad, Brother all were contractors with businesses here in the Bay Area plus Lake Tahoe.. Don’t mind paying for good work but just seen alota lazy pre Madonna attitudes in construction lately no hustle & bustle!! And the workers know this so milk it since they know the bosses have a hard time finding workers that live 2 hours away in traffic..Etiquette is definitely different in other states!
 
Its sad to see, LFS must either overcharge and keep quality or undercharge and have bad quality.

Hopefully we get a may mayor that likes fish tanks one day :)
 
tankguy said:
I'll never forget a Rich Ross talk on the Queen Mary in Long Beach ( its was sometime ago but pretty sure it was Rich ) and he asked Do you know how to make a million dollars in this business ? He answered start with 2 million. I've also had friends who ran fish store in Vegas and each one lasted about a year. To those who have their own businesses I tip my hat to you.
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LOL and that was said at an even that lost a ton of money. It was super fun, and I have a ton of great memories, but we lost our shorts.
 
tankguy said:
I'll never forget a Rich Ross talk on the Queen Mary in Long Beach ( its was sometime ago but pretty sure it was Rich ) and he asked Do you know how to make a million dollars in this business ? He answered start with 2 million. I've also had friends who ran fish store in Vegas and each one lasted about a year. To those who have their own businesses I tip my hat to you.
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That was me, and that was like 20 years ago or more.
This 'issue' has been there for LFS kinda forever. Heck, one of the best LFS remaining in the Bay Area started in a garage and got so much shit because garage dealers take customers away from businesses trying to do it all above board - they are now all above board.
I emphasize with the situation, but I am not sure it is far to say it is any state that is making the issue as LFS everywere in the US are struggling and have been kinda forever, and I think blaming California is just a way to not focus on the actual problem.
Everything has gottne more expensive over time (that is just how it works), people want to be compensated fairly & work in safe enviornments, and states regulate what gets dumped in their storm drains (the water isn't really the issue, the possible introduction of non native baddies is), and rent has gone way up (everywhere) - all the while the costs of animals and basic equipment hasn't changed all that much (yes designer equipment and fancy pants animals has gone up). In that same talked I talked about how a cleaner shrimp that has been flown 15k miles around the world should prolly cost more than 19.99 or 29.99 - you can still find them for that price! The industry generally gets by on economy of scale, but that screws the little guy hard. In my book, that seems to be laid at the feet of the industry and people that shop for the lowest prices rather than quality. Heck, that is part of the reason we started BAR and why the mission statement was written the way it was.
 
I always wondered about the financials of an LFS. Thanks so much for breaking it down. This is clearly not a viable business model.

But what would be interesting is to figure out how an LFS needs to be setup to be successful financially long-term.

As in many businesses, it seems there are two strategic paths for success - high specialization or going big. I can see Aquarium Depot and Neptune pursuing the latter, and Aquatic Collection the former with their focus on a very large variety of non quarantined inexpensive fish. Every business model in between seems to be setup for failure.

A highly regulated business environment might not be helpful, but a lack of a suitable and well executed strategy is what causes businesses to fail ultimately.

I can see two types of specializations potentially still missing in our local market. A marine collector type store which focuses 100% on quarantined higher end or very popular fishes only, no gobies, clowns etc, and which undercuts their prices - like selling borbonius anthias below 750 USD etc or Moorish idols which eat prepared food. And a high-end coral seller, although this really depends how it is being executed.
 
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Thales said:
That was me, and that was like 20 years ago or more.
This 'issue' has been there for LFS kinda forever. Heck, one of the best LFS remaining in the Bay Area started in a garage and got so much shit because garage dealers take customers away from businesses trying to do it all above board - they are now all above board.
I emphasize with the situation, but I am not sure it is far to say it is any state that is making the issue as LFS everywere in the US are struggling and have been kinda forever, and I think blaming California is just a way to not focus on the actual problem.
Everything has gottne more expensive over time (that is just how it works), people want to be compensated fairly & work in safe enviornments, and states regulate what gets dumped in their storm drains (the water isn't really the issue, the possible introduction of non native baddies is), and rent has gone way up (everywhere) - all the while the costs of animals and basic equipment hasn't changed all that much (yes designer equipment and fancy pants animals has gone up). In that same talked I talked about how a cleaner shrimp that has been flown 15k miles around the world should prolly cost more than 19.99 or 29.99 - you can still find them for that price! The industry generally gets by on economy of scale, but that screws the little guy hard. In my book, that seems to be laid at the feet of the industry and people that shop for the lowest prices rather than quality. Heck, that is part of the reason we started BAR and why the mission statement was written the way it was.
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I couldn't have siad it better. Having visited a large swath of the US LFS, the issue isn't a California issue.
 
Alexander1312 said:
A marine collector type store which focuses 100% on quarantined higher end or very popular fishes only, no gonies, clowns etc, and which undercuts their prices - like selling borbonius anthias below 750 USD etc or Moorish idols which eat prepared food.
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Clearwater had a few eating moorish idols awhile back iirc, and for a good price too. According to what I've been told Violet has good fish selection but not great coral selection

High end corals are hard to do because they don't sell fast, and holding them in well-maintained tanks, especially in places where overhead is high, in a store without a big brand to drive sales, is a challenge. Most people are looking for cheap zoas, gsp, and xenia. You'd sell a dozen $10 zoas/acan/xenia before you sell 1 $120 torch/acro/chalice
 
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tribbitt said:
Clearwater had a few eating moorish idols awhile back iirc, and for a good price too. According to what I've been told Violet has good fish selection but not great coral selection

High end corals are hard to do because they don't sell fast, and holding them in well-maintained tanks, especially in places where overhead is high, in a store without a big brand to drive sales, is a challenge. Most people are looking for cheap zoas, gsp, and xenia. You'd sell a dozen $10 zoas/acan/xenia before you sell 1 $120 torch/acro/chalice
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I will not buy from violet anymore - see my yelp review. Also, I would not buy a non-quarantined Moorish idol.

The point I was trying to make is differentiation. Selling cheap or unquarantined fish is not a market segment that is untapped. Same as cheap corals which you can get everywhere. But I get your point on higher-end corals being difficult to keep, potentially.

LFS seem often less business-focused and more in there for the animals. This is great short term but not long term. Should you sell a Moorish idol to a 90-gallon newbie, no. But be the person folks go to to buy these fish. And this can be done in smaller stores if all space is utilized for what the store is known for.

I also think paid ICP consulting is an interesting segment - if you know what you are doing. Some who do are booked out weeks in advance. I paid for it a few times already.
 
I’ve been in Retail Management / Human Resources for 20+ years. There are a lot of businesses that start up and fail. Most should have never. A lot of people like the thought of owning their own business but sadly do not have the knowledge or experience to do so. It’s a hard line to toe and it’s takes much more work than a lot of people realize.

Businesses fail for all sorts of reasons. But it usually falls on poor business plans and unrealistic vision.
 
DaddyHook said:
I’ve been in Retail Management / Human Resources for 20+ years. There are a lot of businesses that start up and fail. Most should have never. A lot of people like the thought of owning their own business but sadly do not have the knowledge or experience to do so. It’s a hard line to toe and it’s takes much more work than a lot of people realize.

Businesses fail for all sorts of reasons. But it usually falls on poor business plans and unrealistic vision.
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I have been trying to make a similar point in post #14.

Of course not everyone is made to run their own business, and there are so many reasons why businesses fail in general. But I would be curious to figure out how such a business would be able to make money and sustain - otherwise we will all be buying only online soon or later.

I do believe being obsessed with what the customer wants is a great starting point and we are all customers. From a pure look and feel perspective, I consider Aquarium Depot the best run store in the Greater Bay Area. Its clean, folks are very friendly and attentitive, they seem to have truly everything, and there is a ton to look at. Are they treating their animals well, no idea. Better or worse than Aquatic Collection? I cannot judge. But this type of store concept is not broadly adoptable as they have the benefit of signficantly lower rent - and they have reptiles and other stuff. But I would love to have a store like this closer to me and I would primarily buy there vs online.
 
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