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Going BB?

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About a month ago, a fellow BAR member (nukeproof, great guy! One the the nicest reefers I've met, he's the guy that introduced me to BAR in the first place) and I were BSing about my setup. He mentioned that my sand bed was a potential time bomb. I kind of dismissed it at the time, but I've been thinking though. On my last move 2 yrs ago, there was some pretty nasty foul stuff in that sand bed. It certainly does seem like a nutrient sink the more I think about it. And, ever since I upgraded the flow in my tank, stuff is blowing around, making little dunes and basically being a pain. I'm seriously contemplating going BB if it's a fairly painless process. I don't want to dismantle everything, I'm thinking I could siphon out the sand with my next WC with minimal disturbance. What do you guys think? I highly value the advice of fellow BAR members who seem to be alot more cutting edge than me. Dude, I'm the guy who never even heard of t5s until last year. Following the advice I got here was gold. I'm extremely impressed with my new lighting, and looking to tweak my system a bit more.
 
If your rocks aren't sitting on top of your sand, you could siphon some sand out with each water change. Do it over a period of time to let your tank adjust.

I had to take everything out of my tank to get to the sand. And it takes way longer than you expect to put everything back in place.

I started at 6pm and didn't finish until 6am. Then I had to go to work... ugh!
 
Yeah, that makes sense. I figure by removing 70-80lbs of substrate I'm seriously altering bacterial populations. I really don't want to start a little cycling event by doing so, since the tank is stocked and rolling along fairly well. My rocks are sitting on the sand, though. Would that make a difference? I figure I could siphon around them carefully, so I won't start an avalanche or something.
 
I'll do it slowly and carefully, no rush involved. Do you think there will be any adverse effects from its removal? The original thinking was that a little more surface area for mineralization wouldn't hurt, so I replaced that funky old bed during the move (I'm a genius). More and more, I think it's kinda redundant with my low fish load. Long term, it may be a liability to the health of the system so if I don't need it, I don't want it. Well, that pretty much settles it. If the Mr. Ugly says its cool, I'll roll with Mr. Uglys recommendations.
 
So your tank has been in its current state for 2 years right? If so I think you could already have some bad bacteria in the depths of your bed (if forget what the non oxygen needing stuff is called but you get the idea). I've read that if you disturb the lower portions of your DSB (from what I understand so chime in if I'm wrong) you definitely cause your tank to cycle but to what degree I have no idea. If you could some how siphon the sand from underneath without stirring it up you might be ok. I'm saying you MIGHT be ok because I've read of some other reefers (on CVReefers) loss stuff (because of a tank cycle possibly) after stirring it up. Sorry this isn't a text book answer but I'd be VERY cautious. Like I said this based on what I've read from real experiences not my own so I'd do some more homework jic.

I went with a shallow sand bed for the same reason you are thinking to BB. There can be some issues with DSB's and I didn't want to have to scrape the bottom of my tank :) I like the way it looks. Plus I plan on getting a Mandarin eventually and the more places for copepods (among other things) to grow the better (at least that's my thinking). If I were you..... I'd test sucking some sand out from the bottom and see if it makes a huge mess. If you find something that sucks sand up without throwing everywhere just thin the bed out. Then adjust your flow so it runs parallel to the SB so it doesn't blow it around.

Just my 2 cents but I hope it give you something to think about.
 
[quote author=blink* link=topic=2425.msg24730#msg24730 date=1190334668]If the Mr. Ugly says its cool, I'll roll with Mr. Uglys recommendations.[/quote]

Jim and Rich said I couldn't hang out with the cool people unless I got rid of my dsb :D

Actually, after seeing all their bb systems doing so well, I had to do it.

Yah, and be careful of kicking up a bunch of sand. That's how I lost my first frogfish. I had him for about a year in my first reef tank. I wanted to make the tank "nicer" for him, and I got some more live rock. I had a hard time getting the rocks in place, and I ended up kicking up a bunch of sand. A day or so later, I had a "sudden angler death" incident :(
 
Breaking the tank down? God, I'd really hate to do that. One of my reefkeeping mantras is " Don't Screw Around With The Tank". It seems whenever I move stuff around and rearrange rocks I'd get a spurt of algae growth. I imagine that would be from disturbing bacterial populations, or changing flow patterns or whatever. I really have no idea what really goes on in reef tanks ;), just anedectol stuff from hanging around a few years. Don't you think removing all the substrate at once would be a bit of a shock to the system? Not to mention a bunch of work... I was planning to take bits out in stages, along with regular water changes as previously suggested. What's the reasoning behind your thinking?

LeviTillie,
Mandarins are cool fish, I had one for a few years. She didn't make the last move, though. As bookfish stated, there aren't that many pods that live in sugarfine sand. Coarse gravel/LR rubble seems to hold tons, but get dirty rather fast. There are plenty of worms and brittle stars in your standard LS though, and I've seen my madarin eat those. I'd say refugium culture might be the way to go for copepods if you've got space, and pack some coarse gravel or LR bits in there.
 
I believe that if the sandbed is old and funky, disturbing it is perilous.
It will be a shock to the system to go BB but if you feed lightly, skim heavily, and use carbon for a while, it won't be too bad.
 
Well, I really don't know the funkiness of it, really. It's not really a DSB, I'd say it's about 1 1/2"-2" deep. I'm worried more about the future developements, rather than its current state. There should probably be some water exchange even at its deepest points. I'm hoping that would retard the growth of those funky smelling bacteria, since they've only had two years to potentially develop. I do run carbon passively, but I really wouldn't consider my system a heavily skimmed one. If anything, a bit underskimmed. It is a healthy system though, and I'd like to keep it that way. Thanks Bookfish!
 
I'm glad you are going BB blink. What I did with mine and 2 others tanks was to just remove it all at once. Have lots of buckets and power heads / heater to place your livestock. The reason I did it this way was I didn't want to risk the nutrient on the bottom half of the sand bed releasing back to the system. I also change out some rock that I thought need to be change at this time. I know it's a big project, but I personally think there are more upside doing it this way than just removing the sand slowly. No hard data to back it up other than it had worked for me. Let me know if you need to borrow some buckets and powerheads. If you need help let me know also.

One thing I would warn before hand with the BB system is that you need to be on top of your water change since you don't have the sand bed as your buffer. Also, lot's of flow really help in keeping the hairy gunks off your rock. I would move my powerheads around once a week so I don't have dead spots where detritus build. When I do water change, I just suck up all the build up off the bottom, just like vacuming.
 
That approach does sound better. Take the fish out, remove the sand, let the water clean up from the just you just stirred up then put them back. It's be kind of like moving to a new tank in a way.
 
Nukeproof,
Well, you are the guy that suggested the idea to me! Yeah, I'll try to keep as much of my old water as possible, to lessen the shock. I'll let you know how it goes. Did you still need the HOB? I found this stupid prizm skimmer thing, but can't seem to find the whisper. It might be at my mom's place, or in some weird place in my other warehouse.
 
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