Alexander1312
Supporting Member
This is a lighter topic for a Sunday. Has anyone watched this yet? Do you have any thoughts?
Not the documentaries we typically like to watch
- Thread starter Alexander1312
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Martin Sheen produced it and had this winner of a quote:
“My hope is that those people that have the tanks will end their acquisitions and release the fish back to their environments if it's still possible."
Cool let's make it even worse by putting a bunch of invasive species into new areas with captive bred animals that have never seen the ocean. Great plan.
“My hope is that those people that have the tanks will end their acquisitions and release the fish back to their environments if it's still possible."
Cool let's make it even worse by putting a bunch of invasive species into new areas with captive bred animals that have never seen the ocean. Great plan.
Interesting. Added to my watchlist. I'm sure there'll be a lot of negative reactions to it, but good to have an outside view on things to refresh blindspots.This is a lighter topic for a Sunday. Has anyone watched this yet? Do you have any thoughts?
Has anyone watched it yet?
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
IMHO
Fffk Martin Sheen!
The oceans and reefs are already dying, thanks humans!
Aquariums, public and private, are the saving grace of many of those species.
That said…
I say leave what’s on the reef on the reef.
But to the ornamental species that are collected, most of which are doomed, many of our tanks are the best hope for their survival.
Buying new fish is a rescue mission.
I’m not paying “extra” to rent this from Amazon
But @Alexander1312 thanks for sharing
Fffk Martin Sheen!
The oceans and reefs are already dying, thanks humans!
Aquariums, public and private, are the saving grace of many of those species.
That said…
I say leave what’s on the reef on the reef.
But to the ornamental species that are collected, most of which are doomed, many of our tanks are the best hope for their survival.
Buying new fish is a rescue mission.
I’m not paying “extra” to rent this from Amazon
But @Alexander1312 thanks for sharing
The animal trade is an enormous source of income in many parts of the world. Thriving markets have helped rebuild many small communities. It has even revived some with coral farming. It doesn't take much effort to see how our own decisions and actions in this hobby, perpetuate this dilemma. This hobby is far from an environmentally friendly one. We either choose to accept it and/or we ignore it because of the amount of joy we gain from it.
On the plus side, the collection of wild animals can lead to captive propagation which leads to a win for both the environment and the various hobbies. A common perspective shared with some in the reptile hobby was conservation through captive propagation. But that meant collecting animals for breeding programs. Getting fresh genetics into breeding programs for diversity. And for some species it actually helped recover wild populations!
Unfortunately, many hobbyist would prefer to pay far less for wild caught animals than pay a premium for captive bred species. The sheer difficulty of breeding many species it seems, speaking of saltwater specifically, leaves to me wonder if we will ever see a dent in the "ugly" side of this hobby and the impact on the environment.
On the plus side, the collection of wild animals can lead to captive propagation which leads to a win for both the environment and the various hobbies. A common perspective shared with some in the reptile hobby was conservation through captive propagation. But that meant collecting animals for breeding programs. Getting fresh genetics into breeding programs for diversity. And for some species it actually helped recover wild populations!
Unfortunately, many hobbyist would prefer to pay far less for wild caught animals than pay a premium for captive bred species. The sheer difficulty of breeding many species it seems, speaking of saltwater specifically, leaves to me wonder if we will ever see a dent in the "ugly" side of this hobby and the impact on the environment.
requiem
Supporting Member
I find this documentary so uninformed at best disingenuous at worst, nearly all of the animal abuse you'll see is on the freshwater side not even from hobbyists but from clueless or very young people.This is a lighter topic for a Sunday. Has anyone watched this yet? Do you have any thoughts?
also apparently the film was originally supposed to focus on freshwater fish and the trailer had scenes switched to saltwater tanks.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
There are several state bills attempting to ban exotic animals including ornamental fish
As I get them in the future, I will post links here
As I get them in the future, I will post links here
I haven’t watched it but in general the anti-hobby people always focus on the wrong problem. They take the emotional appeal route and like to talk about how taking from the reefs and having a low survivability throughout the chain of custody is the problem. That isn’t the main issue, since people take probably 100’s of 1000’s of times more (and a lot more destructively) from the ocean to eat, which has a 0% survivability. I think of eating animals in the modern era as just as much of an unnecessary indulgence as having them as pets, if not much more so. As far as I know Martin Sheen isn’t a vegetarian and so he and probably many others who worked on this film are intentionally killing a lot more aquatic life than I am. I wonder if he catered fish to his production staff? It’s like saying keeping a dog as a pet is cruel but torturing and eating 1000 dogs during the same time is fine.
The real problem, and the one that is a dilemma for me but never gets focused on, is that our hobby is very resource-intensive and wasteful. The energy expenditure and pollution involved in collection, transport, equipment, salt, etc, and our life support systems with all the associated carbon footprint is the main problem. Add to that the use/waste of a lot of fresh water. All of the major pressures on the natural reefs (temperature, pH, pollution) are exacerbated by our partaking in the hobby vs not. I sometimes wonder how many acres of reef I’ve contributed to destroying over the years to have 160 gallon show tank in my home.
Of course the reasons they don’t focus on that is 1) it’s an intellectual argument rather than an emotional one so it doesn’t resonate with most people, and 2) it could be applied to many other hobbies and indulgences we do but don’t want to acknowledge the destructiveness of.
The real problem, and the one that is a dilemma for me but never gets focused on, is that our hobby is very resource-intensive and wasteful. The energy expenditure and pollution involved in collection, transport, equipment, salt, etc, and our life support systems with all the associated carbon footprint is the main problem. Add to that the use/waste of a lot of fresh water. All of the major pressures on the natural reefs (temperature, pH, pollution) are exacerbated by our partaking in the hobby vs not. I sometimes wonder how many acres of reef I’ve contributed to destroying over the years to have 160 gallon show tank in my home.
Of course the reasons they don’t focus on that is 1) it’s an intellectual argument rather than an emotional one so it doesn’t resonate with most people, and 2) it could be applied to many other hobbies and indulgences we do but don’t want to acknowledge the destructiveness of.