Jestersix

Should we make shirts?

Testing is way underrated in the US in my opinion and coming up with reasons why they do not matter are similar to those who are justifying not to do water changes. From my engagement in various local groups overseas, the Europeans are obsessed with water tests which is also problematic.

There is a sweet spot, in my opinion, since I believe as a basic principle that knowledge is power. There is also a difference between short-term and mid-term to long-term success. There are also considerations of how someone has become successful—first attempt, second attempt, several significant failures in between until this was the outcome.

Water changes do not solve everything, IMO, but they are a smarter approach than not making any changes and instead trying to go down moonshiner parameter rabbit holes.

NSW water changes are probably good, but they require storage capacity and ignore the environmental impact of these large water volume deliveries.

Seeing in the tank if a water parameter is off without testing is a great skill. But I do not believe it was learned from not testing but from testing and then no longer needing to test.
 
Alexander1312 said:
NSW water changes are probably good, but they require storage capacity and ignore the environmental impact of these large water volume deliveries.
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I'll bite.

How can transporting water 50-100 miles in a truck be worse then everything that goes into the production and transportation of salt mix and MUNI water?

There is NO comparison. Hands down the most environmentally sound of the two is NSW.
 
BAYMAC said:
I'll bite.

How can transporting water 50-100 miles in a truck be worse then everything that goes into the production and transportation of salt mix and MUNI water?

There is NO comparison. Hands down the most environmentally sound of the two is NSW.
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Interesting. Would you mind elaborating on what is so damaging to the environment when producing sea salt? I might want to reconsider (yet there is still the issue of storing 300 gallons of NSW).
 
Alexander1312 said:
Interesting. Would you mind elaborating on what is so damaging to the environment when producing sea salt? I might want to reconsider (yet there is still the issue of storing 300 gallons of NSW).
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Its NOT sea salt. But that has its own environmental issues (loss of habitat, tractors, semi trucks, packing, processing, etc

It's artificial seawater mix, Every ingredient has its own production, transportation, packaging, etc issues of which are each greater then that of collecting and transporting NSW.

The end products are shipped thousands of miles by boat and truck (as opposed to 50-100 by truck locally)

Buckets are made from plastic, as are the bags. That oil has to be extracted, and processed into plastic pellets. Those pellets have to be melted and put into a IMM to be manufactured, Then it has to be transported to the factory to be filled. Did I mention the production of the inks used on the buckets?

Then you throw away all the packaging. Sure, you collect buckets, but in the long run, that is waste as well.

But wait, then there is the production and delivery of MUNI water, and all that goes into that (and its waste, that also goes somewhere... the Bay). They have all kinds of stuff they use to treat the water. Those have all their own production issues and delivery.

OH, then there is RODI... the waste of the various filters, the production of all them, and the plastic.

Saltmix has a MUCH larger environmental foot print, Magnitudes larger, then the collection of NSW.
 
BAYMAC said:
Yup, and then refined, packaged, and transported to the saltmix factory, who in return ships it to a wholesaler, who in returns ships it to the LFS, and then the end user transports it home.

NSW is transported 50-100 miles.
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NSW from the bay has notably low salinity, alkalinity, and other things as far as i remember. Does this increase the work you need to do to use it?
 
BAYMAC said:
Its NOT sea salt. But that has its own environmental issues (loss of habitat, tractors, semi trucks, packing, processing, etc

...
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Just wanted to quickly note, this is a very informative set of data points that I've never seen called out before, and I appreciate it. When I setup my tank here in CA versus previously in IL, I through NSW would be super cool, but then figured it wasn't better and there wouldn't be eco benefits, so I didn't do so. Your analysis is compelling, and I'm now wondering if I could do it given I just moved my other reservoirs outside.

Thanks!

Now I'll stop encouraging the thread hijack :)
 
Thank you for this education @BAYMAC. So based on this, this sounds like something we should NOT use under ANY circumstances.

So why do we?

The drawbacks with what is in it, or rather what is not, bothers me only in regards to the lower salinity, which would require a bit of overfilling after water change to offset this with evaporation.

I believe we said previously that a minimum order is somewhere between 100 gallons and 300 gallons? I could do 100 gallons but 300 would be out of reach for me.
 
We are very lucky to have access to NSW in our area. The water is pulled from half moon bay through some filtration. I have been using this water for over 20 years and going through tens of thousands of gallons. I do heat the 55 degree water before use.

I would like to thank Gresham @BAYMAC and Matt for their most accurate advice one day, a long long ago...during a delivery from Steve
 
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