Neptune Aquatics

Upgrading electrical outlets?

MarcosDelgado0

MarcosDelgado0

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So basically I will be having both of my tanks running in one room. Bad thing is there’s only 3 different outlets in the room. Only one is 3 prong, the other two are the old two prong outlets. Never really understood all the electrical stuff but basically I’ve always only ever had 1 tank on one of those outlets and of course the nearest one is 2 prong so I had to get a long extension cord from the 3 prong to reach the tank. Probably not the safest thing. Now that I need two tanks running in the room, I want to get things upgraded so I don’t have to worry about it. I live in an apartment and they’re ok with me upgrading them but they wont pay for the upgrades. I’m guessing this isn’t something I can DIY? I’m thinking of either reaching out to a local company or there is also electricians on Task Rabbit which are licensed/insured that can do the job with an hourly rate of ~$100/hr which seems reasonable, I’d have to get the materials but they don’t seem to costly. Not sure how much a company would charge. There is one outlet on each 3 walls, minus the wall that has a closet. Should I make the nearest one near the tanks GFCI and the other one 3 prong? One of the other ones is already 3 prong. Any thoughts or input appreciated
 

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I don't think this is diy if you're asking here if it is :) possible. I'd think first time electrical diy is more like outlet/switch replacements or wiring a garage/shed.

I would get a clear expectation from the landlord on their expectations around permits and such. Worst case pricing scenario is you need a permit (instantly brings you to the $1k range) and some holes poked which then means you need to get it patched up afterwards. Actually worst worst case is the permit requires you to replace all the outlets and get everything up to code.

My understanding is if you're swapping out an outlet, and diy, you don't need a permit. If you're having someone else do it, you do.

I just assume at this point any time someone's touching anything electrical it's going to cost me at least $1500. I also feel electrical is a place it's not great to take chances on.

If plumbing goes bad, your entire house can get screwed. If electrical goes bad, your entire house can get screwed and you can die in a fire.

If it's safety that's your concern, I would think a properly rated extension cord is totally fine. Likely more fine than a lowest bid electrical install. You also can find some removable covers that can make it less visible. That'd be what I'd do if I was renting, but again, I am not an electrician so everything I say may be completely misguided or wrong.
 
richiev said:
I don't think this is diy if you're asking here if it is :) possible. I'd think first time electrical diy is more like outlet/switch replacements or wiring a garage/shed.

I would get a clear expectation from the landlord on their expectations around permits and such. Worst case pricing scenario is you need a permit (instantly brings you to the $1k range) and some holes poked which then means you need to get it patched up afterwards. Actually worst worst case is the permit requires you to replace all the outlets and get everything up to code.

My understanding is if you're swapping out an outlet, and diy, you don't need a permit. If you're having someone else do it, you do.

I just assume at this point any time someone's touching anything electrical it's going to cost me at least $1500. I also feel electrical is a place it's not great to take chances on.

If plumbing goes bad, your entire house can get screwed. If electrical goes bad, your entire house can get screwed and you can die in a fire.

If it's safety that's your concern, I would think a properly rated extension cord is totally fine. Likely more fine than a lowest bid electrical install. You also can find some removable covers that can make it less visible. That'd be what I'd do if I was renting, but again, I am not an electrician so everything I say may be completely misguided or wrong.
Click to expand...
Haha you’re probably right about the first part. I haven’t looked into DIY yet but wasn’t sure if it was just turning off the breakers and removing the outlet and just wiring the new one in how to old one was. Would definitely feel better a professional doing it if it’s something complicated even if it costs me more.
 
Following along I have same issue the whole house is only 2 prong except in the bathrooms.

Been using 2 prong adapters or strips minus the 3rd prong.
 
Also regarding 2-prong versus 3-prong, there isn't any normal difference between the two. On a 3-prong, just like a 2-prong, all electric flows through the 2 slots.

The round, 3rd, hole is the ground. That should normally never have any electric flowing through it. It's there in case something goes wrong.

The way that works is if you have something like a computer, that ground plug and wiring is connected somewhere in the actual computer to the frame (or other metal parts) of the computer. Let's imagine something goes wrong, like an electrical short happens where accidentally some electric piece gets connected to the metal on the computer.

In an ungrounded, 2-prong'esque, situation, the frame of the computer is now electrified. It can't go anywhere though. Then you go and pick it up and touch the metal. Suddenly the electric has a place to go, into you, and it does, and you get shocked. Electric goes: internal wires -> computer case > you.

In a grounded, 3-prong, electronic, there's a backup. The electric in that situation will have a path where it can go through that instead (because the wire is easier for electric to flow through than you; wire has lower resistance). Electric goes: internal wires -> computer case -> out through the 3rd prong. You hopefully don't get shocked.

It's also useful for less catastrophic situations, such as static electricity or whatever. Static shock hits the computer case, goes down and out through the ground plug.

In an aquarium situation, this same thing applies. However, there's so much stuff in aquariums that are 2-prong anyway that it doesn't always matter. Plugging a 2-prong heater into a 3-prong outlet has absolutely no difference that a 2-prong outlet.

What you can do with a 3-prong outlet though is buy a cheap grounding probe. What that hopefully does is when a heater breaks in your tank, and you stick your arm in, instead of getting electric shocked by the electric flowing through you, it doesn't touch you and goes out through the probe.

I'm guessing all that is confusing, and it's a lot easier to explain with visuals.

The gist:
* 3 prong outlets are not fundamentally different than 2, they just add a safety backup
* That extra backup is only useful if the things plugged in have 3 prongs
* An aquarium grounding probe is helpful (I put them on all my tanks after having been shocked once)
 
richiev said:
Also regarding 2-prong versus 3-prong, there isn't any normal difference between the two. On a 3-prong, just like a 2-prong, all electric flows through the 2 slots.

The round, 3rd, hole is the ground. That should normally never have any electric flowing through it. It's there in case something goes wrong.

The way that works is if you have something like a computer, that ground plug and wiring is connected somewhere in the actual computer to the frame (or other metal parts) of the computer. Let's imagine something goes wrong, like an electrical short happens where accidentally some electric piece gets connected to the metal on the computer.

In an ungrounded, 2-prong'esque, situation, the frame of the computer is now electrified. It can't go anywhere though. Then you go and pick it up and touch the metal. Suddenly the electric has a place to go, into you, and it does, and you get shocked. Electric goes: internal wires -> computer case > you.

In a grounded, 3-prong, electronic, there's a backup. The electric in that situation will have a path where it can go through that instead (because the wire is easier for electric to flow through than you; wire has lower resistance). Electric goes: internal wires -> computer case -> out through the 3rd prong. You hopefully don't get shocked.

It's also useful for less catastrophic situations, such as static electricity or whatever. Static shock hits the computer case, goes down and out through the ground plug.

In an aquarium situation, this same thing applies. However, there's so much stuff in aquariums that are 2-prong anyway that it doesn't always matter. Plugging a 2-prong heater into a 3-prong outlet has absolutely no difference that a 2-prong outlet.

What you can do with a 3-prong outlet though is buy a cheap grounding probe. What that hopefully does is when a heater breaks in your tank, and you stick your arm in, instead of getting electric shocked by the electric flowing through you, it doesn't touch you and goes out through the probe.

I'm guessing all that is confusing, and it's a lot easier to explain with visuals.

The gist:
* 3 prong outlets are not fundamentally different than 2, they just add a safety backup
* That extra backup is only useful if the things plugged in have 3 prongs
* An aquarium grounding probe is helpful (I put them on all my tanks after having been shocked once)
Click to expand...
How do you do a grounding probe? Never heard of it but I'm intrested now you bring it up.
 
MarcosDelgado0 said:
Haha you’re probably right about the first part. I haven’t looked into DIY yet but wasn’t sure if it was just turning off the breakers and removing the outlet and just wiring the new one in how to old one was. Would definitely feel better a professional doing it if it’s something complicated even if it costs me more.
Click to expand...
Actually your question made me remember other stuff. Again, not an electrician.

I think there's some variation where you're allowed to swap a 2-prong outlet for a 3-prong, as long as the new outlet is GFCI (turns off if it detects electric going though something it shouldn't, like you) and you label it as ungrounded. That doesn't actually solve the fundamental issue, and isn't better than running the extension cord, but I think adds a bit of safety to the 2-prong outlet. Maybe needs to be an AFCI or something too though, I don't know.

The electric still may flow through you when a short happens, but the GFCI makes it try and stop flowing through you really fast by shutting itself off.

MichaelB said:
Following along I have same issue the whole house is only 2 prong except in the bathrooms.

Been using 2 prong adapters or strips minus the 3rd prong.
Click to expand...
If that's what you got, that's what you have to do. There's some electronics that might not work, or might work incorrectly, with that setup. I think you'd know immediately though.

As another example, I have Bambu 3d printer. One day my kid was touching two screws on the door, and said they felt weird and tingly. I internally rolled my eyes, said it was fine, and to demonstrate I stuck my fingers to the screws.

I immediately pulled my hand back and realized, nope, I'm just a judgemental dad. Turned out the Bambu has a short somewhere and 120V is flowing through the case. Now it's a controlled short apparently, because the amps were very low so you only tingled, but very dangerous.

How on earth could that happen though? The Bambu is 3-prong and grounded. I then started poking around with a multimeter, and it turns out the person who installed the outlet in the garage didn't actually connect the grounding wire, so that 3rd prong did nothing.

I fixed the outlet, and plugged everything in again. I then could touch the screws with no issue, because all that electric instead is flowing out the 3rd prong. Still dangerous, but a good illustration.

MichaelB said:
How do you do a grounding probe? Never heard of it but I'm intrested now you bring it up.
Click to expand...
First you buy one: https://www.amazon.com/RIO-Professi...cphy=1014178&hvtargid=pla-2281435178818&psc=1

Probe plugs into the 3-prong outlet. You then stick the metal part into the water somewhere, ideally near your submerged electronics.

All it is is a titanium piece, connected to a single wire, which then connects to that grounding hole in the outlet (3rd round one).

It "sucks up" stray current and sends it out.
 
richiev said:
Actually your question made me remember other stuff. Again, not an electrician.

I think there's some variation where you're allowed to swap a 2-prong outlet for a 3-prong, as long as the new outlet is GFCI (turns off if it detects electric going though something it shouldn't, like you) and you label it as ungrounded. That doesn't actually solve the fundamental issue, and isn't better than running the extension cord, but I think adds a bit of safety to the 2-prong outlet. Maybe needs to be an AFCI or something too though, I don't know.

The electric still may flow through you when a short happens, but the GFCI makes it try and stop flowing through you really fast by shutting itself off.


If that's what you got, that's what you have to do. There's some electronics that might not work, or might work incorrectly, with that setup. I think you'd know immediately though.

As another example, I have Bambu 3d printer. One day my kid was touching two screws on the door, and said they felt weird and tingly. I internally rolled my eyes, said it was fine, and to demonstrate I stuck my fingers to the screws.

I immediately pulled my hand back and realized, nope, I'm just a judgemental dad. Turned out the Bambu has a short somewhere and 120V is flowing through the case. Now it's a controlled short apparently, because the amps were very low so you only tingled, but very dangerous.

How on earth could that happen though? The Bambu is 3-prong and grounded. I then started poking around with a multimeter, and it turns out the person who installed the outlet in the garage didn't actually connect the grounding wire, so that 3rd prong did nothing.

I fixed the outlet, and plugged everything in again. I then could touch the screws with no issue, because all that electric instead is flowing out the 3rd prong. Still dangerous, but a good illustration.


First you buy one: https://www.amazon.com/RIO-Professi...cphy=1014178&hvtargid=pla-2281435178818&psc=1

Probe plugs into the 3-prong outlet. You then stick the metal part into the water somewhere, ideally near your submerged electronics.

All it is is a titanium piece, connected to a single wire, which then connects to that grounding hole in the outlet (3rd round one).

It "sucks up" stray current and sends it out.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the detailed replies. Very helpful!
 
richiev said:
Actually your question made me remember other stuff. Again, not an electrician.

I think there's some variation where you're allowed to swap a 2-prong outlet for a 3-prong, as long as the new outlet is GFCI (turns off if it detects electric going though something it shouldn't, like you) and you label it as ungrounded. That doesn't actually solve the fundamental issue, and isn't better than running the extension cord, but I think adds a bit of safety to the 2-prong outlet. Maybe needs to be an AFCI or something too though, I don't know.

The electric still may flow through you when a short happens, but the GFCI makes it try and stop flowing through you really fast by shutting itself off.


If that's what you got, that's what you have to do. There's some electronics that might not work, or might work incorrectly, with that setup. I think you'd know immediately though.

As another example, I have Bambu 3d printer. One day my kid was touching two screws on the door, and said they felt weird and tingly. I internally rolled my eyes, said it was fine, and to demonstrate I stuck my fingers to the screws.

I immediately pulled my hand back and realized, nope, I'm just a judgemental dad. Turned out the Bambu has a short somewhere and 120V is flowing through the case. Now it's a controlled short apparently, because the amps were very low so you only tingled, but very dangerous.

How on earth could that happen though? The Bambu is 3-prong and grounded. I then started poking around with a multimeter, and it turns out the person who installed the outlet in the garage didn't actually connect the grounding wire, so that 3rd prong did nothing.

I fixed the outlet, and plugged everything in again. I then could touch the screws with no issue, because all that electric instead is flowing out the 3rd prong. Still dangerous, but a good illustration.


First you buy one: https://www.amazon.com/RIO-Professi...cphy=1014178&hvtargid=pla-2281435178818&psc=1

Probe plugs into the 3-prong outlet. You then stick the metal part into the water somewhere, ideally near your submerged electronics.

All it is is a titanium piece, connected to a single wire, which then connects to that grounding hole in the outlet (3rd round one).

It "sucks up" stray current and sends it out.
Click to expand...
Lol guess i'm still outta luck. In terms of no 3 prong outlets. Bathroom and wife isn’t happening. Thanks I will definitely keep it in mind for future.
 
MichaelB said:
Following along I have same issue the whole house is only 2 prong except in the bathrooms.

Been using 2 prong adapters or strips minus the
Click to expand...

MarcosDelgado0 said:
So basically I will be having both of my tanks running in one room. Bad thing is there’s only 3 different outlets in the room. Only one is 3 prong, the other two are the old two prong outlets. Never really understood all the electrical stuff but basically I’ve always only ever had 1 tank on one of those outlets and of course the nearest one is 2 prong so I had to get a long extension cord from the 3 prong to reach the tank. Probably not the safest thing. Now that I need two tanks running in the room, I want to get things upgraded so I don’t have to worry about it. I live in an apartment and they’re ok with me upgrading them but they wont pay for the upgrades. I’m guessing this isn’t something I can DIY? I’m thinking of either reaching out to a local company or there is also electricians on Task Rabbit which are licensed/insured that can do the job with an hourly rate of ~$100/hr which seems reasonable, I’d have to get the materials but they don’t seem to costly. Not sure how much a company would charge. There is one outlet on each 3 walls, minus the wall that has a closet. Should I make the nearest one near the tanks GFCI and the other one 3 prong? One of the other ones is already 3 prong. Any thoughts or input appreciated
Click to expand...
check your wiring take off the cover off outlet and pull out outlet to see if have the green ground wire. if you do . you can swap out the to the 3 prong outlet from 2 prong outlet.
 
MichaelB said:
Never thought to check.
Click to expand...
It's possible, but it's probably unlikely that you've got a bunch of outlets (or every outlet in a place) that someone installed modern wiring in, but installed old 2-prong outlets.

Usually poking around at things is fine and an interesting learning experience, but with electrical it can be sketchy. For instance, my place had mostly modern outlets, but some in the back bedrooms weren't. Similarly they weren't in the living room. There also was one outlet in the living room that was 3-prong, but from inspection it was ungrounded.

The ungrounded 3-prong was someone just putting in a modern outlet without any of the wiring being in place. So it looked right but wasn't. The bedrooms were because that was the oldest, 1950s, part of the house and had old wiring as well.

The old wiring was knob and tube wiring. It's difficult, or impossible, to get insurance if you have knob and tube. Or at least if you admit you do. The reason being it's mostly safe if you never touch it, but if you do, you're liable to knock off the decayed cloth cover that they used back then on the electric lines. You then have 120V bare wires floating around. A great way to knock it off is start yanking around on outlets or switches :).

I ended up having the wiring redone because I wanted proper outlets, no insurance worry, and mostly because it felt bad to have my kids' room be the one with the old decrepit wiring and bad outlets. That was ... not a fun expense though.

Anyway, mentioning it not to be scary electrical story guy, but because old wiring is not the same and not robust to handle us laypeople ham-fisting and messing around with it.
 
Last edited:
My house was built in 1951 and had 2 prong outlets when we moved in. Electrical was the first upgrade I had to do because we mined bitcoin back then and that sucks up more power than our tanks.

When you open up your outlets (after killing the breaker) and you find a green wire, it's not automatic that you can install a 3 prong for our application. The wiring must be able to handle the load. Rewiring a house sucks, and Romex isn't cheap, but like mentioned above, electrical is something we can't get wrong.

If you have 12g wiring underneath, you're in good shape. 14 or 16, rethink things and invest in some renovations..get the opinion of a licensed professional..while there are shortcuts and things tou can rig up, the safety of your family and home are paramount.

Changing out the breaker box is an easy $1500 for labor but if you have space for a 20 amp or even a dedicated 15, you can run wiring in conduit from the box to the room you house the tank. Hire an electrician to wire everything after you run it. It's not hard to run and they have conduit benders that make it easier. They sell 12g wire at home depot, if ypu pull it yourself, you can shave off some time you have to pay an electrician to do it.

The room you have the tanks in can possibly be all on the same breaker, keep that in mind when calculating your load. You can tell by shutting off the breakers one by one and using the tester @dswong01 posted above.

With 2 tanks, you may have a heavy load. My single tank runs off one dedicated 20 amp and one dedicated 15 amp, but again, co sult and electrician.

HTH
 
finalphaze987 said:
My house was built in 1951 and had 2 prong outlets when we moved in. Electrical was the first upgrade I had to do because we mined bitcoin back then and that sucks up more power than our tanks.

When you open up your outlets (after killing the breaker) and you find a green wire, it's not automatic that you can install a 3 prong for our application. The wiring must be able to handle the load. Rewiring a house sucks, and Romex isn't cheap, but like mentioned above, electrical is something we can't get wrong.

If you have 12g wiring underneath, you're in good shape. 14 or 16, rethink things and invest in some renovations..get the opinion of a licensed professional..while there are shortcuts and things tou can rig up, the safety of your family and home are paramount.

Changing out the breaker box is an easy $1500 for labor but if you have space for a 20 amp or even a dedicated 15, you can run wiring in conduit from the box to the room you house the tank. Hire an electrician to wire everything after you run it. It's not hard to run and they have conduit benders that make it easier. They sell 12g wire at home depot, if ypu pull it yourself, you can shave off some time you have to pay an electrician to do it.

The room you have the tanks in can possibly be all on the same breaker, keep that in mind when calculating your load. You can tell by shutting off the breakers one by one and using the tester @dswong01 posted above.

With 2 tanks, you may have a heavy load. My single tank runs off one dedicated 20 amp and one dedicated 15 amp, but again, co sult and electrician.

HTH
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I can’t make those kinds of changes here because I am renting but I was explaining to my mom what I was trying to do and she called a family friend who is an electrician and he’s going to come check it out for me and if the wiring allows switch the outlets as well. I used to have a 120 gallon tank and a rack with three 20 gallons in place where the current tanks are but looking back at it I never thought about the electrical risks. I was just using extension cords and surge protectors wherever I needed to plug something in. It worked then but I’m trying to do things the right way now from the start
 
dswong01 said:
Buy one these outlet tester just follow light code on outlet tester. It will tell alot about your outlet. About $10 home depot or amazon.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I can’t use that because my outlets only have two prongs haha. That’s the problem I’m trying to solve. Unless you meant use that after the new outlets are installed?
 
MarcosDelgado0 said:
Unfortunately I can’t use that because my outlets only have two prongs haha. That’s the problem I’m trying to solve. Unless you meant use that after the new outlets are installed?
Click to expand...
Same issue lol. Would need the 2 prong version. My place was built in 1962 according to google so I honestly wouldn't be very hopefully in terms of them just not using 3 prong outlets.
 
MarcosDelgado0 said:
Unfortunately I can’t make those kinds of changes here because I am renting but I was explaining to my mom what I was trying to do and she called a family friend who is an electrician and he’s going to come check it out for me and if the wiring allows switch the outlets as well. I used to have a 120 gallon tank and a rack with three 20 gallons in place where the current tanks are but looking back at it I never thought about the electrical risks. I was just using extension cords and surge protectors wherever I needed to plug something in. It worked then but I’m trying to do things the right way now from the start
Click to expand...
Definitely the way to go. Old houses are the ideal place for electricians. Though unfortunately they're also a cash cow for electricians. Good to take free expert advice.
 
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