Urgent advice (and live rock) needed- Dino/Lyngbya tank crash

[derek_SR]

I recently upgraded my tank - from a 525xl to a 225g peninsula. I was going to start a tank journal (and still intend to) to document things but have found myself in an epic dino battle about 6 weeks in.

To cut to the chase - I had an outbreak of Ostreopsis, which I easily defeated with UV. The Ostreo was quickly replaced by Amphidinium (or similar - IDed with microscope). The latter is apparently known to be less toxic so I decided to minimize intervention and just let the biome work itself out. Lost my shrimp and had a lot of grumpy corals but otherwise mostly OKish.

In the last 2-3 days, however, corals have rapidly RTNed, the snails have all died, and a huge amount of brown, hairy stuff has appeared (on rocks, pumps, and other high-flow areas - not sand):

It resembles brown GHA but looks like cyano under a microscope. Based on my research, it is likely Lyngbya Cyanobacteria? Highly toxic, seems relatively rare in the hobby, and the examples I found usually resulted in full tank teardowns. The problem is that now my fish have started to die - so I need to take more urgent action, but am flying out of town for 4 days on Sunday.

My plan is to basically remove all of the affected live rock from the DT. I'll siphon the sand, perform a large WC, and then move the rocks from my sump (clean and uninfected) up to the DT. My concern is the bio filter - I have a good amount of fish and am afraid my sand and sump rock will not be enough to nitrify the ammonia while I am gone (or provide enough hiding spots for fish).

I am interested in the advice of anyone here who may have experience with this sort of outbreak, or thoughts on a better plan (that I can implement in 1.5 days or so), and/or has some spare liverock they can give/sell/loan to me to swap into my tank and keep the fish safe while I am out of town.

Thank you!

 

[Kensington Reefer]

Pull the rock
Massive water changes
Carbon

 

[richiev]

While not a long-term fix, a full tank blackout possibly could cause a short-term turnaround. Maybe pull the live rock you can get at, or at least the worst of it, give it a quick scrub with a peroxide covered brush, rinse it in fresh water, put it back with a water change. Then toss in a bunch of carbon, turn on the uv, and do a blackout. If someone else will be home while you're gone, you could do the blackout for part of the time you're gone.

Also, unless you're worried about fish hiding spots, I wouldn't bother moving the rock out of the sump. It'll filter the water just as well down there, and if you're not seeing it get gunked up in the sump maybe it's better to not move it up top.

 

[Alexx]

Your invert dying will spiked your nitrates depending on how many snails you got. But yes carbon and water change.
Also maybe that rock is contaminated? Or is it on all your other rocks as well.

 

[derek_SR]

While not a long-term fix, a full tank blackout possibly could cause a short-term turnaround. Maybe pull the live rock you can get at, or at least the worst of it, give it a quick scrub with a peroxide covered brush, rinse it in fresh water, put it back with a water change. Then toss in a bunch of carbon, turn on the uv, and do a blackout. If someone else will be home while you're gone, you could do the blackout for part of the time you're gone.

Also, unless you're worried about fish hiding spots, I wouldn't bother moving the rock out of the sump. It'll filter the water just as well down there, and if you're not seeing it get gunked up in the sump maybe it's better to not move it up top.

The concern with the blackout is that it will kill the Lyngbya - given how apparently toxic it is I actually want to avoid killing it and do my best to simply remove it.

I think your suggestion is to do both, the problem is that this stuff grows so incredibly fast - like it will reappear within literally minutes. Still, I may try doing a pull-and-scrub tonight and see if it reappears and if it does I’ll just pull it all and move forward with the original plan Saturday. Luckily it does not appear on the sand - I wonder if my 6ft sandbed alone has enough nitrifying bacteria and my ammonia fears from pulling rock are incorrect?

And yeah - only reason i would move the sump rock is for the fishes sake!

Anyway, thanks for chiming in - much appreciated.

 

[derek_SR]

Your invert dying will spiked your nitrates depending on how many snails you got. But yes carbon and water change.
Also maybe that rock is contaminated? Or is it on all your other rocks as well.

Everything inch of the tank that isn’t sand or a viewing pane is covered. Nitrate spike is the least of my worries, in fact I have been dosing it some to keep it in the 5-10 range. It’s the only thing I’m adding to the tank right now.

 

[Coral reefer]

Everything inch of the tank that isn’t sand or a viewing pane is covered. Nitrate spike is the least of my worries, in fact I have been dosing it some to keep it in the 5-10 range. It’s the only thing I’m adding to the tank right now.

Guessing he meant ammonia? Maybe not tho

 

[richiev]

Btw, how much healthy stuff do you currently have? Is buying a 40 gal breeder or a big Ruben Rubbermaid and transferring livestock and basic support equipment an option? Would be stressful, error prone, and cost some money but might be less than having to replace things after you return.

Alternatively see if anyone local can put your stuff in QT by their place while you're gone. If you're going to be pulling all the rock to clean it anyway, seems like it's not that much further a step to do that full restart.

One more random idea, do the cleaning + water change + uv + blackout. Then get a bunch of biomedia/sand from people here. Toss it in during the blackout under the hope that good stuff might be able to get a stronger hold while the other stuff is hopefully more dormant.

Regarding the chemicals when they die, consider having your uv feed directly into carbon and/or other media.

Another crazy, wives tale, you could try running the UV from a pump directly in the display. I don't believe that helps, but the Mack's dinos group swears it matters. I know these aren't dinos, but maybe there's something magical there.

Sorry, just brain dumping random ideas. The time constraint is tough; I feel for you.

 

[richiev]

One more option, isn't chemi clean and such theb instant cure for cyano? Can you pull all the rock, transfer it to a container with saltwater + chemiclean + power head + carbon, then leave everything else in the tank?

If you're concerned about losing too much filtration you could temporarily reduce (or even stop) feeding to try and help reduce that. Do some measurements and if needed compensate with amquel or other ammonia remover.

 

[derek_SR]

Btw, how much healthy stuff do you currently have? Is buying a 40 gal breeder or a big Ruben Rubbermaid and transferring livestock and basic support equipment an option? Would be stressful, error prone, and cost some money but might be less than having to replace things after you return.

Alternatively see if anyone local can put your stuff in QT by their place while you're gone. If you're going to be pulling all the rock to clean it anyway, seems like it's not that much further a step to do that full restart.

I have about 25 healthy fish and little else, at this point. That is actually my plan - @under_water_ninja has a tank I am going to borrow and pick up after I get back from my trip and use that for a transfer. Just don't want to set up a tank before immediately leaving town...too many things could go wrong. Absolutely planning on a full reboot!

One more random idea, do the cleaning + water change + uv + blackout. Then get a bunch of biomedia/sand from people here. Toss it in during the blackout under the hope that good stuff might be able to get a stronger hold while the other stuff is hopefully more dormant.

That is the goal! Hoping to find some live rock via this post. @dandemeyere is local to me and will be hooking me up with some sponges, but hoping to find some rocks as well before Sunday.

One more option, isn't chemi clean and such theb instant cure for cyano? Can you pull all the rock, transfer it to a container with saltwater + chemiclean + power head + carbon, then leave everything else in the tank?

If you're concerned about losing too much filtration you could temporarily reduce (or even stop) feeding to try and help reduce that. Do some measurements and if needed compensate with amquel or other ammonia remover.

Lyngbya is not killed by chemiclean - there's an antibiotic that does kill it, but it's difficult to obtain. I do have Cipro on hand and was considering doing a big dose of that into the DT but given my concerns about the nitrifying filter I'm hesitant to add any antibiotics, especially as just a hail mary. Note that this is all based on my internet research - Lyngbya seems to be nasty stuff but it's less common so there are not 600 page threads available like there are with Dinos.

Really great point to feed less - I will turn down the autofeeder while I am gone. Excellent suggestion. Thanks for your help man!

 

[RandyC]

I have about 25 healthy fish and little else, at this point. That is actually my plan - @under_water_ninja has a tank I am going to borrow and pick up after I get back from my trip and use that for a transfer. Just don't want to set up a tank before immediately leaving town...too many things could go wrong. Absolutely planning on a full reboot!



That is the goal! Hoping to find some live rock via this post. @dandemeyere is local to me and will be hooking me up with some sponges, but hoping to find some rocks as well before Sunday.



Lyngbya is not killed by chemiclean - there's an antibiotic that does kill it, but it's difficult to obtain. I do have Cipro on hand and was considering doing a big dose of that into the DT but given my concerns about the nitrifying filter I'm hesitant to add any antibiotics, especially as just a hail mary. Note that this is all based on my internet research - Lyngbya seems to be nasty stuff but it's less common so there are not 600 page threads available like there are with Dinos.

Really great point to feed less - I will turn down the autofeeder while I am gone. Excellent suggestion. Thanks for your help man!

Honestly, if you’re going through the trouble to transfer everything already and committing to clean all the rocks. You’re not far from starting from starting from scratch. It’s probably worth it to consider a restart. Unless you really want to be a pioneer and find a solution! I’m all for experimenting.

However, if you do want to quickly jumpstart when you get back, i have bio-media that I can swap with you for new ones. And can also give you some sand. These are the blocks that I use.

Nano-Tech Bio-Blocks (2 pcs)

Replace 20lbs of Live Rock with just 1 Bio-Block! Completely inert-- wont affect water chemistry Stabilized microbial sewage treatment technology Ultra-high surface area for enhanced filtration Just 1 Bio-Block piece can replace up to 20lbs of live rock Rapidly colonized by beneficial bacteria...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[derek_SR]

Honestly, if you’re going through the trouble to transfer everything already and committing to clean all the rocks. You’re not far from starting from starting from scratch. It’s probably worth it to consider a restart. Unless you really want to be a pioneer and find a solution! I’m all for experimenting.

However, if you do want to quickly jumpstart when you get back, i have bio-media that I can swap with you for new ones. And can also give you some sand. These are the blocks that I use.

Nano-Tech Bio-Blocks (2 pcs)

Replace 20lbs of Live Rock with just 1 Bio-Block! Completely inert-- wont affect water chemistry Stabilized microbial sewage treatment technology Ultra-high surface area for enhanced filtration Just 1 Bio-Block piece can replace up to 20lbs of live rock Rapidly colonized by beneficial bacteria...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

That would be awesome! And yes - my intent is 100% to reboot at this point. I just have to wait until I get back in town, so this is a short term measure to keep the fish alive for the next 5 days or so. Once I'm back, the plan is for a full reboot. I will shoot you a PM!

 

[phatduckk]

i can toss a bunch of marine pure in my sump. Won’t exactly be “live” in a short duration but it’s easy enough for me to do if you’re interested. (I have the marine pure and am not using it)