Reliable Heaters? (eheim jagers consistently crapping out)

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Enderturtle, Nov 16, 2015.

  1. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    I'm seeing a huge discrepancy on actual wattage needed for a specific tank size between the Finnex Ti heaters and the Jagers.

    Jager list 150w as suitable for 53-79g and their 300w is for 159-264g.

    Finnex lists their 300w for 40-80g and their 800w for 140-265g.

    Do I follow their recommendations or is there a better rule of thumb to follow!?! I've been using a Jager 150w as a main and a Cobalt NeoTherm 100w as a back up though both come on at the same time.
  2. denzil

    denzil Webmaster

    I would just follow their recommendations personally. Those heaters are likely engineered differently if their respective ratings have that much of a disparity between them.
  3. wpeterson

    wpeterson Webmaster

    I would follow the wattage and look at your net water volume and temperature differential between target tank temp and your room.

    The same power for the same size tank won't work if the room is a lot colder.
  4. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    A 0.6 degree hysteresis should be plenty.
    Although I am not sure that +/-0.3 really means that.
    Is your sensor too close to your heater?
    Of course, it could simply have been bad luck with the heaters.
  5. sjbro

    sjbro Supporting Member

    My temp sensor is in the fuge section of the sump. The heater is in the skimmer section. That's pretty much opposite sides.
  6. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    That's the opposite way of how I would put the 2.

    With the sensor downstream of the heater, you are measuring heated water and not the actual temp of DT water.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  7. Enderturtle

    Enderturtle Volunteer

    Im replacing my 2 150watt eheim jagers with 2 ViaAqua 250watt heaters.

    Heat baby heat!!! My apex will tell you when to stop if you forget!
  8. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    First, agree with Vincent that it seems backwards.
    Although with enough flow, probably makes little difference.

    But Is there a baffle between those areas?
    What happens on a cold day if your return pump stops?
    If fuge area will stay cold, the heater will stay on...
    Although temp sensor in heater itself will eventually stop it.
  9. sjbro

    sjbro Supporting Member

    Yes, it's a bit backwards - mainly becuase of lack of space & wrong wiring. It's an effect from 2 years ago when I moved the tank to the new place in a big rush and I didn't get time to properly setup & fix my sump. The latest plan is to fix it this spring when the weather warms up a bit.

    There is a baffle in between the skimmer and fuge. In fact the sump layout is skimmer - return chamber - fuge.
    If the return pump stops I have a problem in the sense that I rely only on the heater's own sensor to stop heating. But in most configurations I will have the same issue, unless the skimmer and RK temp sensor are in the same section. At the same time it is a low probability for the return pump and heater sensor to broke down at the same time...
  10. coral4me

    coral4me Supporting Member

    Sorry for joining the conversation a bit late, but I really like the Cobalt Neo-Therm heaters. Currently using a 150W Neo-Therm on my 90gal. and have a 200W Neo-Therm ready and waiting for my upcoming DSA105 build. Also have Eheim Jagers in my frag tank and quarantine tank since Eheim Jagers seem reliable and I already own them I'm continuing to run them. Also, I have some older Ebo Jagers (all green body) that I drop in my mixing tanks before water changes. I do plan to replace my variuos Jagers with Neo-Therms eventually. I really like the form-factor and durability of the Neo-Therm along with the digital thermostat and its design to fail in the OFF state vs. the ON state like the majority of other heaters.
  11. Vhuang168

    Vhuang168 Supporting Member

    Just be aware that the NeoTherm 200w is rated up to a 55g tank only.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  12. coral4me

    coral4me Supporting Member

    Thanks for the heads up. I did notice the 55g recommendation, since the tank is within the conditioned space of my home I'm not too concerned. The 150watt Neo-Therm has no problem keeping my 90gal with 40gal sump stable. If someone's tank were located in a garage, patio, basement or any area that can have low ambient temperatures, then the 55gal max recommendation would be more critical. I'll follow up with results, once I get the DSA105 setup. Now that you've got me thinking, I'll consider adding a second heater to help stabilize any temperature fluctuations faster and serve as a backup. At a minimum, I should have an extra on hand.
  13. Enderturtle

    Enderturtle Volunteer

    Yeah definitely nice having at least one high wattage heater on hand because when would we notice our tanks dropping below 75 degrees?

    At 7:00AM in the morning when no pet stores not even petco are open.
  14. tygunn

    tygunn Webmaster

    Another option is to get a raw titanium heating coil like this

    And then control it with an industrial controller like a Ranco.

    I use the titanium coil from an old won bros digital heater. The controller on it was crap. I replaced the controller with a digital industrial controller I got off eBay. Rock solid.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
    Coral reefer likes this.
  15. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Definitely a good option.

    But it is still a tradeoff.
    You gain in quality and greatly reduce the chance of failure.
    But you lose the redundancy of having two relays in series.
    So if it does fail-on, it cooks.

    Tempting to DIY just for quality + redundancy reasons.
  16. Enderturtle

    Enderturtle Volunteer

    I'd also like to add that I really appreciate the text message and sound alarm when my tank temperature drops below 77 degrees.

    I think I currently have my apex programmed to send me a Text message if my tank drops below 77.

    The base unit emits an alarm sound when the tank drops below 75 or so.

    I have heard of at least 2 tank crashes due to the recent cold spells we had like 2 weeks ago.

    My 250 watt via aqua glass heater has been doing a good job. But if I see it failing, I will be switching to Titanium heaters and control it via my apex.
  17. tygunn

    tygunn Webmaster

    If I had a controller like an Apex I'd probably use it as a high-temperature cutoff that would act as the second shut-off point for the heater and inform me of the problem. The big key to me would be to know something is amiss so I can intervene.

    However, in practice I don't have a controller, so I'm playing the odds. Lol, I've done worse, however. With my old 140g tank I had an abs float valve in the sump hooked up directly to the output from my RO/DI system (with pressure tank); that was a disaster waiting to happen.
  18. rygh

    rygh Supporting Member

    Long term (meaning think about it and never actually do it) is to hook up a small gas heater.
    Run a separate closed loop from sump through an on demand gas heater.
    Electricity is so expensive...
    tygunn likes this.
  19. Kensington Reefer

    Kensington Reefer Supporting Member

    Be VERY cautious with everything from via-aqua
    I've seen numerous very scary failures

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