got ethical husbandry?

Quick ICP head to head results

Darkxerox

Darkxerox

Vice President
BOD
BARcard
So I tested Triton ICP-OES vs. Tropic Marin ICP-OES. Price: $45 (6 for $270 but got a 160 gal box of TMP salt included). Tropic Marin kit was free from SWA for a $250+ order (normally $28 or so). However it cost $5.94 to ship.

1000009182.jpg


Both samples taken the same time and mailed out 1/5/26. Results back from Triton on 1/8/26! Results back from TM on... 1/20/26.

Results were really similar, some things were off but everything within normal ranges. The Triton test gives more data:

docs.google.com

CADE 1500 - 01.08.2026

docs.google.com docs.google.com

Overall, looks like my use of Two Little Fishies salt and three part plus Tropic Marin TEs mixed in is working well. Not impressed by the ship time to TM.
 
PizzaOven said:
Nice to see they’re fairly consistent.

It would be nice if ICP reported measurement uncertainty. I’m guessing it would scare and/or confuse people.
Click to expand...
Most people can barely read a regular bar graph, let alone understand standard error, or accuracy vs. precision, so I can see why they leave it out. Technically I should have done at least N=3 for each test, but a) I'm lazy and b) I only had one of the free TM kits. I would have liked to see reportable range instead of just ideal ranges though.
 
Darkxerox said:
Most people can barely read a regular bar graph, let alone understand standard error, or accuracy vs. precision, so I can see why they leave it out. Technically I should have done at least N=3 for each test, but a) I'm lazy and b) I only had one of the free TM kits. I would have liked to see reportable range instead of just ideal ranges though.
Click to expand...
You're probably right. My middle school science teacher would have sent the ICP back marked down for no error bars lol. I guess that stuff doesn't really stick unless you make a career out of it.
 
Darkxerox said:
So I tested Triton ICP-OES vs. Tropic Marin ICP-OES. Price: $45 (6 for $270 but got a 160 gal box of TMP salt included). Tropic Marin kit was free from SWA for a $250+ order (normally $28 or so). However it cost $5.94 to ship.

View attachment 77706

Both samples taken the same time and mailed out 1/5/26. Results back from Triton on 1/8/26! Results back from TM on... 1/20/26.

Results were really similar, some things were off but everything within normal ranges. The Triton test gives more data:

docs.google.com

CADE 1500 - 01.08.2026

docs.google.com docs.google.com

Overall, looks like my use of Two Little Fishies salt and three part plus Tropic Marin TEs mixed in is working well. Not impressed by the ship time to TM.
Click to expand...
Tropic Marin tests are done by the Fauna Marin lab. You got the limited tests which is not too useful and you can only compare the two (Triton vs Tropic) if you get the full test.

It takes 10 days to get the results if you time it right, i.e., sending it on Friday morning. Too long but I do not trust the US Triton lab, so I am still planning to try out Oceamo for faster turnaround - bought several of their tests already. I know Tim has good experience with them, and Christoph is great.
 
Alexander1312 said:
Oh, and test results seem dramatically different. So one of them is wrong. There is a reason why TM did not pair with Triton.
Click to expand...
Or both of them are wrong. Without knowing the true values, you can't compare accuracy. We could in theory measure accuracy and precision of both labs ourselves, assuming we can accurately prepare known concentrations.

Something like:
10 points over the measurable range and N=10 repeats of each (100 tests = $5,000). I'm oversimplifying, you'd have to worry about inter-element interference and precipitation of certain elements at the higher end. I'm sure a bunch of reef nerds could figure out a good way to do it. It would be a cool collective effort!
 
PizzaOven said:
Or both of them are wrong. Without knowing the true values, you can't compare accuracy. We could in theory measure accuracy and precision of both labs ourselves, assuming we can accurately prepare known concentrations.

Something like:
10 points over the measurable range and N=10 repeats of each (100 tests = $5,000). I'm oversimplifying, you'd have to worry about inter-element interference and precipitation of certain elements at the higher end. I'm sure a bunch of reef nerds could figure out a good way to do it. It would be a cool collective effort!
Click to expand...

I tend to agree to some of that. To me it’s like going to the Dentist. You either trust them or not. You cannot verify their results or the quality of their work. Comparing ICP labs with each other has been done here and in other places many times, and it does not lead to much. And all of them make mistakes sometimes since humans complete the tests, and these are Walmart prices for an attempt to produce lab grade results. It comes down to who puts in most of the efforts to aim for reasonable consistent accuracy, over, e.g,, fast turnaround times of test results only.

But more specifically - if, e.g. CA cannot be measured reliably, then all hope is lost :).
 
Alexander1312 said:
I tend to agree to some of that. To me it’s like going to the Dentist. You either trust them or not. You cannot verify their results or the quality of their work. Comparing ICP labs with each other has been done here and in other places many times, and it does not lead to much. And all of them make mistakes sometimes since humans complete the tests, and these are Walmart prices for an attempt to produce lab grade results. It comes down to who puts in most of the efforts to aim for reasonable consistent accuracy, over, e.g,, fast turnaround times of test results only.

But more specifically - if, e.g. CA cannot be measured reliably, then all hope is lost :).
Click to expand...
Yeah wasn't too keen on the both being off on the Ca reading (my new Salifert kit read 400 ppm that morning), but as far as trace metals go, both tests were close enough in the "present" vs. "depleted" or "wildly high due to overdose/failed magnet" areas that I'd be concerned about since I haven't ever tested the tank. I'm never going to care about 1 vs. 2 ug/L or controlling from 1 to 2 ug/L, I'm just trying to keep it from going 1 to 0, or from 1 to 100.

My biggest concern was my aluminum lid with all the salt creep and splashing or me dropping them into the tank, but neither showed to be in an unsafe range. Getting a 3 day response on if I have a cracked magnet or some major issue is a big plus for me too.
 
Darkxerox said:
Yeah wasn't too keen on the both being off on the Ca reading (my new Salifert kit read 400 ppm that morning), but as far as trace metals go, both tests were close enough in the "present" vs. "depleted" or "wildly high due to overdose/failed magnet" areas that I'd be concerned about since I haven't ever tested the tank. I'm never going to care about 1 vs. 2 ug/L or controlling from 1 to 2 ug/L, I'm just trying to keep it from going 1 to 0, or from 1 to 100.

My biggest concern was my aluminum lid with all the salt creep and splashing or me dropping them into the tank, but neither showed to be in an unsafe range. Getting a 3 day response on if I have a cracked magnet or some major issue is a big plus for me too.
Click to expand...

I was going to ask if and which parameters you checked on that day with your at home tests.

Your Salifert CA test result is interesting, as this is one I have been able to consistently almost match with FM ICP, to the point where I wondered if they use Salifert for testing vs the OES :).

These were my last ICPs vs Salifert results:

Feb 13: 397 vs 400 mg/L
Jan 9: 415 vs 426 mg/L
Nov 28: 421 vs 415 mg/L
Oct 24: 419 vs 425 mg/L

(it pretty much continues like this)

It is important to note that the results above came from at least 2 different Salifert test kits as I keep replacing them every 3 months.

If you are not trying to dial your major and minor elements in, then your bar for accuracy is of course much lower. And Triton will do for directional results. As you know, I very much believe in the value to dialing in parameters.

Regarding your salinity - did you measure your salinity on that day? Were there any differences to your measurements?
 
Alexander1312 said:
I was going to ask if and which parameters you checked on that day with your at home tests.

Your Salifert CA test result is interesting, as this is one I have been able to consistently almost match with FM ICP, to the point where I wondered if they use Salifert for testing vs the OES :).

These were my last ICPs vs Salifert results:

Feb 13: 397 vs 400 mg/L
Jan 9: 415 vs 426 mg/L
Nov 28: 421 vs 415 mg/L
Oct 24: 419 vs 425 mg/L

(it pretty much continues like this)

It is important to note that the results above came from at least 2 different Salifert test kits as I keep replacing them every 3 months.

If you are not trying to dial your major and minor elements in, then your bar for accuracy is of course much lower. And Triton will do for directional results. As you know, I very much believe in the value to dialing in parameters.

Regarding your salinity - did you measure your salinity on that day? Were there any differences to your measurements?
Click to expand...
Salinity was 35 ppt
 
Darkxerox said:
Using my Veegee refractometer
Click to expand...
I use the VeeGee Refractometer as well. It is very accurate and basically has zero drift over time when I recalibrate. Accuracy of the salinity measurement has been confirmed by ICPs from ATI, ReefLab, and Fauna.

I will also soon do a head-2-head of ATI ICP-MS and Modern Reef ICP-MS after my tank recovers from the aftermath of 5-weeks of high dose Interceptor!
 
Alexander1312 said:
Never heard of this refractometer before, but getting 35 from Fauna ICP is impressive. Best place to buy this, and any downside?
Click to expand...
It's the one @Thales and Ben recommend on Reef Beef. Honestly it's HEAVY, which leads me to believe why it's so expensive and doesn't drift like the cheapo ones (there's no dinky screw, it's a huge ring). I haven't had to adjust it at all since I bought it over a year ago. I still use the TM hydrometer for my water prep since I leave it in there while it's mixing as an estimate.

I called up the customer service with a question about the lid sticker and you can tell it's just one of their no-nonsense engineers with a phone by their desk.

You can buy direct like I did (if you don't like to buy from Amazon). https://www.veegee.com/collections/handheld-refractometer/products/handheld-salinity-refractometer
 
Darkxerox said:
It's the one @Thales and Ben recommend on Reef Beef. Honestly it's HEAVY, which leads me to believe why it's so expensive and doesn't drift like the cheapo ones (there's no dinky screw, it's a huge ring). I haven't had to adjust it at all since I bought it over a year ago. I still use the TM hydrometer for my water prep since I leave it in there while it's mixing as an estimate.

I called up the customer service with a question about the lid sticker and you can tell it's just one of their no-nonsense engineers with a phone by their desk.

You can buy direct like I did (if you don't like to buy from Amazon). https://www.veegee.com/collections/handheld-refractometer/products/handheld-salinity-refractometer
Click to expand...
I have to calibrate my cheap Amazon one before every use. Didn’t realize there existed ones that can hold calibration. Thanks!
 
Darkxerox said:
It's the one @Thales and Ben recommend on Reef Beef. Honestly it's HEAVY, which leads me to believe why it's so expensive and doesn't drift like the cheapo ones (there's no dinky screw, it's a huge ring). I haven't had to adjust it at all since I bought it over a year ago. I still use the TM hydrometer for my water prep since I leave it in there while it's mixing as an estimate.

I called up the customer service with a question about the lid sticker and you can tell it's just one of their no-nonsense engineers with a phone by their desk.

You can buy direct like I did (if you don't like to buy from Amazon). https://www.veegee.com/collections/handheld-refractometer/products/handheld-salinity-refractometer
Click to expand...
I have had the VeeGee for close to two years now. I have recalibrated it twice and each time needed to make zero adjustment. Here is the salinity from the last ATI ICP-MS I did a few months ago.

IMG_6696.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top