Coral reefer
Past President
Seems fine
Alex’s IM 150 EXT
- Thread starter Alexander1312
- Start date
derek_SR
Supporting Member
You call that a messy sump area? Ha! looks very nice to me.
My skimmer pulls that much gunk in about 1 day, and my skimmer cup is also much larger I think. But I feed 10+ times a day (6 auto feeders, 1 nori, 3+ shots of frozen).
You can tune it to skim dryer or wetter, as you probably know. I turn mine down to skim much drier if I'm going to be away for a few days.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
. Wow, your fish are really in food heaven, but you probably do this to keep some of these sharks you have in check.Still, this is a good benchmark, thank you for sharing. The 220 is quite a bit larger compared to the 200, and extrapolating your setup to mine, it still feels mine should pull out more. But you run much higher nitrates and phosphates from what I remember, and have much more fish, so maybe it is ok.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
I know not many here seem to use ozone and I am still in the dialing in phase. I bought a few additional books during my current trip to Germany, as they seem to be more recently updated as compared to some of the English literature (2016-2023, Knopp, Brockmann, Fossa/Nilsen).
Unfortunately, content on the use of ozone is limited, but there was in one book (Brockmann) a recommendation to not go over 10 mg of ozone per hour (without stating tank volume). Also, in my recent discussion with Claude Schumacher, who prefers ozone over UV, he also mentioned that he measures ozone dosing via mg/hour vs. ORP, as he does not consider the probes to be reliable.
The poseidon 200 claims to produce up to 220 mg of ozone per hour. This worried me since the generator has 10 levels and I am running this at level 3, to reach my ORP targets, which would bring out much more ozone per hour than the max of 10 mg / hour. I have followed up with ozotech to get their feedback on how much ozone is produced at a given level, and they shared with me the attached chart, which is merely an estimate based on some previous experiments they made to convert results to mg/hour vs ppm. This chart worried me as it seems I add 55 mg / hour to the tank, far exceeding the 10 mg / hour recommended by Brockmann.
Since it seemed incomplete to not provide a tank volume with the dosing recommendation, I went back to RHF articles, and found additional details in Part 2: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php#18:
Unfortunately, content on the use of ozone is limited, but there was in one book (Brockmann) a recommendation to not go over 10 mg of ozone per hour (without stating tank volume). Also, in my recent discussion with Claude Schumacher, who prefers ozone over UV, he also mentioned that he measures ozone dosing via mg/hour vs. ORP, as he does not consider the probes to be reliable.
The poseidon 200 claims to produce up to 220 mg of ozone per hour. This worried me since the generator has 10 levels and I am running this at level 3, to reach my ORP targets, which would bring out much more ozone per hour than the max of 10 mg / hour. I have followed up with ozotech to get their feedback on how much ozone is produced at a given level, and they shared with me the attached chart, which is merely an estimate based on some previous experiments they made to convert results to mg/hour vs ppm. This chart worried me as it seems I add 55 mg / hour to the tank, far exceeding the 10 mg / hour recommended by Brockmann.
Since it seemed incomplete to not provide a tank volume with the dosing recommendation, I went back to RHF articles, and found additional details in Part 2: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php#18:
- “Use a generator sized appropriately for your system, on the order of 0.3 to 0.5 mg O3/hour per gallon of aquarium water”. For my tank volume this would mean approx. 45 to 75 mg/hour ozone seem acceptable, so the 55 mg / hour I am currently dosing according to ozotech are right within his guideline.
- “Monitor the ORP when using ozone. If it rises above 375 mV, and it may well not, be sure to carefully control it so that it does not rise undesirably high (above 450 mV).” This works because my ORP levels are currently limited to approximately 375 mV. RHF stated some additional oddities with ORP probes which I had also observed, fluctating readings for several days after being in calibration fluid. I was already aware of this but I forgot about these details when I saw two identical probes delivering quite different results in a Milwaukee controller and APEX PM1 module.
- “For the aquarium inhabitants' safety, pass the ozonated water over activated carbon to reduce the concentration of toxic ozone and ozone byproducts in the water.” Adding carbon will be on my list to add when I come back. The challenge will be to add carbon after the skimmer, not before where I typically put it. I might need to add the reactor I bought from Derek previously and install this in the return pump chamber.
derek_SR
Supporting Member
Still, this is a good benchmark, thank you for sharing. The 220 is quite a bit larger compared to the 200, and extrapolating your setup to mine, it still feels mine should pull out more. But you run much higher nitrates and phosphates from what I remember, and have much more fish, so maybe it is ok.
Yes, all accurate points
I think your skimmate is probably just fine. Is it smelly?I do feed heavy largely to keep the sharks happy and healthy, but I also think fish poop (ammonia, trace elements, bacteria) is good for coral.
Lots of fish + lots of food = lots of fish poop. Fish poop gets a bad rap...but I think it's the secret sauce.
BAYMAC
Supporting Member
Fish poop is good food for downstream critters!Yes, all accurate points
I do feed heavy largely to keep the sharks happy and healthy, but I also think fish poop (ammonia, trace elements, bacteria) is good for coral.
Lots of fish + lots of food = lots of fish poop. Fish poop gets a bad rap...but I think it's the secret sauce.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Hard to take good pictures of my tank since it gets strong natural daylight/sun from the top. Lot’s of glaring, so I could not take pictures from the side and given the dimensions of the tank, this misses almost 50% of what’s going on (although the back is mostly three large to very large toadstools). Aritficial light intensity when this picture was taken was at 30-40% (plus the sunlight ).
Still, it was time for an update after the Dino and Cyano issues from the past three months or so.
Dinos are gone and cleaning up the massive (!) cyano mess which covered rock and sand is going well.
I believe cyano it is not coming back but what was there previously is hanging on except if I manually remove it. And the manual removal is still something I struggle with practically as it seems very tedious and cyano patches do not easily get sucked into the gravel vac. Therefore, I bought now the Marineland Polishing filter recommended by Rich in his algae presentation and hope to remove the remaining pieces with it more effectively.
Once cyano is cleaned up, I would like to bring the acros from various BAR events into this tank, which are currently doing rather well in the nano tank with a Red Sea 50 Watt LED. Currently, this tank has only very simple corals, but I like most I have in there, specifcally the various toadstools, and which my fish love to use as their hiding space. However, the sunset monti and the milka are now fighting with each other, partially bleaching the milka and I am not sure if I should break them up or let them continue this fight? Open for feedback.
Water values are as below.
Alk and CA dropped quite a bit after being on vacation for two weeks and dosing alk based on the BOLUS method, with Balling light, which seemed to have increased uptake of both while I was gone. I have already started to bring this slowly back up but I felt a good issue to have so no complaints even if they are lower than I wanted them to be at the moment.
Nitrate/Phosphate ratio is not were I like it and for several weeks I have been trying to bring down nitrates, which had worked partially but went back up during vacation (where more dry food etc was fed). This is currently my main effort and I reintroduced weekly 10-15% water changes for that reason. I also add daily 3 ml of Captiv8 Elimin8DIN and 3g of their carbon product combined, both are very high doses given that their products are highly concentrated. Adding this impacts PH and ORP signficantly as it can be seen here for PH and ORP, but I would just like to have a better balance between the two without raising phosphate.
Flow continues to be a challenge. The tank has two MP40s and four XF350s. The MP40s are on the back, and the gyres were on opposite ends on the top. This was probably not a good idea as th flow broke in the middle of the tank. I have moved the two left XF350 now back to the back and arranged them vertically again, same as Kenny, and as I had it previously. This seemed to help with the dead spots but created other chaos with some corals getting a ton of flow now. Flow is on par with my coral glueing skills, and I probably need help with it as I cannot figure out how to best position this.
).Still, it was time for an update after the Dino and Cyano issues from the past three months or so.
Dinos are gone and cleaning up the massive (!) cyano mess which covered rock and sand is going well.
I believe cyano it is not coming back but what was there previously is hanging on except if I manually remove it. And the manual removal is still something I struggle with practically as it seems very tedious and cyano patches do not easily get sucked into the gravel vac. Therefore, I bought now the Marineland Polishing filter recommended by Rich in his algae presentation and hope to remove the remaining pieces with it more effectively.
Once cyano is cleaned up, I would like to bring the acros from various BAR events into this tank, which are currently doing rather well in the nano tank with a Red Sea 50 Watt LED
. Currently, this tank has only very simple corals, but I like most I have in there, specifcally the various toadstools, and which my fish love to use as their hiding space. However, the sunset monti and the milka are now fighting with each other, partially bleaching the milka and I am not sure if I should break them up or let them continue this fight? Open for feedback.Water values are as below.
Alk and CA dropped quite a bit after being on vacation for two weeks and dosing alk based on the BOLUS method, with Balling light, which seemed to have increased uptake of both while I was gone. I have already started to bring this slowly back up but I felt a good issue to have so no complaints even if they are lower than I wanted them to be at the moment.
Nitrate/Phosphate ratio is not were I like it and for several weeks I have been trying to bring down nitrates, which had worked partially but went back up during vacation (where more dry food etc was fed). This is currently my main effort and I reintroduced weekly 10-15% water changes for that reason. I also add daily 3 ml of Captiv8 Elimin8DIN and 3g of their carbon product combined, both are very high doses given that their products are highly concentrated. Adding this impacts PH and ORP signficantly as it can be seen here for PH and ORP, but I would just like to have a better balance between the two without raising phosphate.
Flow continues to be a challenge. The tank has two MP40s and four XF350s. The MP40s are on the back, and the gyres were on opposite ends on the top. This was probably not a good idea as th flow broke in the middle of the tank. I have moved the two left XF350 now back to the back and arranged them vertically again, same as Kenny, and as I had it previously. This seemed to help with the dead spots but created other chaos with some corals getting a ton of flow now. Flow is on par with my coral glueing skills, and I probably need help with it as I cannot figure out how to best position this.
Last edited:
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Big fish purchase yesterday from @SupraSaltyReefer.
Hopefully, no casualties in the process of these additions.
- Pair of small Odontanthias borbonius
- One small Centropyge loriculus
- One small Genicanthus bellus
Hopefully, no casualties in the process of these additions.
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
In the case of the “a$$hole” tang....
I would add all new fishes at the same time
And offer copious amounts of a wide variety of feeds, both frozen and dry
I would add all new fishes at the same time
And offer copious amounts of a wide variety of feeds, both frozen and dry
SupraSaltyReefer
Supporting Member
Happy they went to a much bigger home and will be in good hands. They love lots of frozen mysis, I was feeding PE Mysis specifically. Leaving the lights off today and add a large mirror to distract the Yellow Tang will help as well.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Unfortunately, I have just found the Flame Angel dead under a rock, and I very much suspect that the Bellus is dead too, although I could not find him yet.
Lessons learned are not super clear to me:
I introduced them all at once, and used a large mirror but not the entire time. Maybe I should be adding a mirror from the get go and leave it for a few days? Also turning off the lights for the first 24 hours would probably be a good idea, although the tank gets a ton of natural daylight, so not sure if it will make a big difference? We did feed immediately and extensively after adding the fish. Maybe the fish were too small, or the Yellow Tang too aggressive.
I only hope both of the Anthias will survive…
, and I very much suspect that the Bellus is dead too, although I could not find him yet. Lessons learned are not super clear to me:
I introduced them all at once, and used a large mirror but not the entire time. Maybe I should be adding a mirror from the get go and leave it for a few days? Also turning off the lights for the first 24 hours would probably be a good idea, although the tank gets a ton of natural daylight, so not sure if it will make a big difference? We did feed immediately and extensively after adding the fish. Maybe the fish were too small, or the Yellow Tang too aggressive.
I only hope both of the Anthias will survive…
SupraSaltyReefer
Supporting Member
Ohhhh no! So sorry to hear Alex.Unfortunately, I have just found the Flame Angel dead under a rock
Lessons learned are not super clear to me:
I introduced them all at once, and used a large mirror but not the entire time. Maybe I should be adding a mirror from the get go and leave it for a few days? Also turning off the lights for the first 24 hours would probably be a good idea, although the tank gets a ton of natural daylight, so not sure if it will make a big difference? We did feed immediately and extensively after adding the fish. Maybe the fish were too small, or the Yellow Tang too aggressive.
I only hope both of the Anthias will survive…
They were happy and eating in my tank. Maybe the yellow tang was too aggressive? I feel bad tho. I’ll DM you so we can work something out.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Fully agree. The fish were all super happy in your tank, which makes this even more unfortunate. I love all of these fish and would like to get them in eventually, so trying to find a different way to go past the aggression. I always thought the Whitetail was the main aggressor which no longer holds true.Ohhhh no! So sorry to hear Alex.
derek_SR
Supporting Member
Sorry to hear that, major bummer. I don’t think it has been mentioned yet but IMO acclimation boxes can be hugely helpful during these situations. Established tangs are jerks.
Removing the tang and adding after, rearranging rock work are additional steps that can be taken.
Removing the tang and adding after, rearranging rock work are additional steps that can be taken.
Kensington Reefer
Supporting Member
Tangs.....don’t like new tank mates
I am going to have to catch a C. striatus from my 300 in order to add the CBB’s that I need for aiptasia control.
It has already caused the demise of an 8 year old Achilles and a perfectly heathy whitetail bristletooth tang.
If I had not had the striatus for over 15 years, it would be elsewhere!
Sad to hear of the losses
I am going to have to catch a C. striatus from my 300 in order to add the CBB’s that I need for aiptasia control.
It has already caused the demise of an 8 year old Achilles and a perfectly heathy whitetail bristletooth tang.
If I had not had the striatus for over 15 years, it would be elsewhere!
Sad to hear of the losses
Daymn. That’s a jagged little pill. Very unfortunate. So sorry that happened.
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Update on failed attempt to acclimate four fish:
The good news is that both Anthias are still alive (the Bellus is nowhere to be found). We have started feeding up to three times frozen food daily, including Mysis, which they like, according to Tu. They are both eating well but are very shy due to the lingering aggression from the Yellow Tang (hence no picture for now).
The good news is that both Anthias are still alive (the Bellus is nowhere to be found). We have started feeding up to three times frozen food daily, including Mysis, which they like, according to Tu. They are both eating well but are very shy due to the lingering aggression from the Yellow Tang (hence no picture for now).
Alexander1312
Supporting Member
Reliability of home testing.
There has been a lot of talk about not chasing numbers and focusing on trends when testing. Still, I do like it if two tests have matching results. While I am not testing one home test against another, every time I get an ICP test back, I like to see how it compares to my own testing.
I have been doing monthly ICP for several months now which this tank, and the past five tests have shown very similar results to several of my home tests, which makes me believe that these tests are not as bad as I have often heard. It also makes me think that it is more the diligence of following the testing procedure that determines the accuracy than the quality of the test kit itself. Yet, some are probably more accurate than others, which I am trying to show here.
I am showing the ICP vs. home testing results below, including the test kit used:
There has been a lot of talk about not chasing numbers and focusing on trends when testing. Still, I do like it if two tests have matching results. While I am not testing one home test against another, every time I get an ICP test back, I like to see how it compares to my own testing.
I have been doing monthly ICP for several months now which this tank, and the past five tests have shown very similar results to several of my home tests, which makes me believe that these tests are not as bad as I have often heard. It also makes me think that it is more the diligence of following the testing procedure that determines the accuracy than the quality of the test kit itself. Yet, some are probably more accurate than others, which I am trying to show here.
I am showing the ICP vs. home testing results below, including the test kit used:
- Salinity - Milwaukee - 34.7 PSU vs. 35 PSU
- Magnesium - Salifert - 1433 mg/l vs 1395 mg/l
- Calcium - Salifert - 375 mg/l vs 380 m/l
- Alkalinity - Hanna - 8.5 vs 8.6 dkh
- Nitrate - Hanna - 27.8 mg/l vs 26 mg/l
- Phosphate - Hanna - 0.118 mg/l vs 0.1 mg/l
Last edited:
It's hard to do a side by side without samples in triplicate, doing statistical analysis, and knowing the assay precision and accuracy of each method of measure. Just imagine a range above and below the values given as to where your sample really is.
But keeping the salinity and alkalinity stable goes a long way for a successful tank as you've seen!
But keeping the salinity and alkalinity stable goes a long way for a successful tank as you've seen!
MichaelB
Supporting Member
I'm nowhere close to many others here in exp or knowledge but I think you have a very tight range with the tests even counting 6 day shipping various temperatures the samples were exposed to along the route. Its probably
safe to say in my estimates the tests your using are accurate enough to notice differences in trends over time. It would be impossible and well beyond my capibilites to speak on the accuracy of the lab preforming the icp. I would hope they would have much better equipment and understanding of chemistry than our lowly hobbist available test kits. How do your personal numbers compare to the last few icps you done. If they look similar in range to these I would say Pat yourself on the back.