Reef nutrition

All-for-reef vs 2 part vs Kalk?

gmdcdvm

gmdcdvm

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Hello,
Currently dosing All for Reef in my tank for about a year. I have no green thumb when it comes to growing corals but overall I feel like after a year I would have some better growth.
I have added more flow. Lights are kessil AP9X. Par levels vary from 450 at the top to 224 at the bottom and 180 towards the edges.

I don’t like the all for reed because it either forms a crystal plug at the end of the line and I have to remember to knock it off every few days. If I don’t it will eventually plug the line and cause it to pop. It also will crystallize in the line and eventually affects the amount dosed. When I emailed Tropic Marin their solutions for this were not that helpful.

Thinking of switching to two part like B ionic. Or kalk and some part of trace elements.

Just wondering what people are using and results.

Thanks

G
 
I am dodging your main question :D but might have a useful tip until you decide which direction to go in.

Is it possible to point your auto top off at the end of your AFR dosing line so it could potentially clean off the crystal buildup for you? Someone mentioned this to me on humblefish but rather at the outlet of my calk reactor. Keep in mind I am not sure of problems that doing the this may cause with AFR effluent. Maybe someone here can say if it will have a negative effect, I am unsure.
 
Esv is the best. Then Kalk and 2 part. Then all for reef. Watch reef bum and dong. There’s something about all for reef in the long run that’s not good. But I don’t remember what. I know they were talking about it tho.
 
The ATO suggestion might help. Tropic said to slightly submerge the tip of the line but I worry about a siphon effect. I can easily move the ATO.

One vote for ESV? Will have to check that out.
 
Isn't ESV just 2 part with trace elements? Kind of like the balling method if I understand correctly.

My vote is anything 2 part, including ESV. Gives you the ability to tune CA and Alk independently.

I'm experimenting with AFR and haven't been going long enough but I wouldn't run a main display with it.
 
H2OPlayar said:
Isn't ESV just 2 part with trace elements? Kind of like the balling method if I understand correctly.

My vote is anything 2 part, including ESV
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Bob stark. The guy that owns esv is a chemist. Old school reefer. He’s constantly twisting the esv compounds. It’s really good stuff except it’s expensive if you use a lot.
 
Patio said:
I am dodging your main question :D but might have a useful tip until you decide which direction to go in.

Is it possible to point your auto top off at the end of your AFR dosing line so it could potentially clean off the crystal buildup for you? Someone mentioned this to me on humblefish but rather at the outlet of my calk reactor. Keep in mind I am not sure of problems that doing the this may cause with AFR effluent. Maybe someone here can say if it will have a negative effect, I am unsure.
Click to expand...
Interesting idea. Usually I just take it off once a week as part of maintenance
 
Turkeysammich said:
Bob stark. The guy that owns esv is a chemist. Old school reefer. He’s constantly twisting the esv compounds. It’s really good stuff except it’s expensive if you use a lot.
Click to expand...
I used ESV 2-part for about a decade, many years ago when I kept a simpler reef tank before dosers and automation. I thought it was good but stopped mainly because I thought he hadn’t changed the recipe in too many years and was falling behind current understanding for minor/trace elements. Like too old-school. Plus at least at the time they were totally opaque about what was and wasn’t in it, or even if it was Balling style, which is to say tweaking the elements so that NaCl and other elements are kept in correct percentages as the CaCO3 is used up (which I like).

If you are saying he has been tweaking and modernizing it, I’ll take another look.
 
JVU said:
I used ESV 2-part for about a decade, many years ago when I kept a simpler reef tank before dosers and automation. I thought it was good but stopped mainly because I thought he hadn’t changed the recipe in too many years and was falling behind current understanding for minor/trace elements. Like too old-school. Plus at least at the time they were totally opaque about what was and wasn’t in it, or even if it was Balling style, which is to say tweaking the elements so that NaCl and other elements are kept in correct percentages as the CaCO3 is used up (which I like).

If you are saying he has been tweaking and modernizing it, I’ll take another look.
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If you follow Andrew Sandler. Bob stark was on there. He was saying he custom design the esv for Andrew Sandler. Then releases it to the public after he’s happy with the formula.
 
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I’m currently using mostly calcium hydroxide (kalk) to my max evaporation amount, supplemented with some Triton 3-part. I used Triton for quite a few years and it works great, but was too expensive as my consumption went up.

When I run out of my left over Triton I’ll supplement with another 2-part, probably just the BRS calcium and carbonate/bicarbonate since I have it already. Bicarbonate maybe preferred during the photoperiod hours to blunt the pH swing. Mg can be tested every couple months and supplemented if needed, seems like it isn’t really worth having in a doser.

CaOH2 (kalk) is great for the pH boost but the main problem for me is it doesn’t have any minor or trace elements. So more recently for a few months I’ve been supplementing with Isol8:MT on the recommendation of Kenny @under_water_ninja. I can’t say I’ve seen a difference in the corals but it does make me feel better that I’m not ignoring minor/trace elements. I just sent off my first ICP test in a couple years (laziness), so we’ll see how it comes back.

I tried All For Reef a few years ago. It was a disaster for use in a large-consumption tank, it crashed the pH which caused coral to die which further crashed the pH and probably other parameters. Even though I went slow. Not a good time. It’s probably fine for low-consumption tanks with otherwise ok pH.
 
I am having great results with ESV.

Kalk is such hassle it’s not worth it unless you’re really desperate for the ph boost IMO.
 
Shameless plug: I have three new 2 liter sets of ATI Essentials Pro available if anyone's interested in trying it out.

Worked great for me, had all the trace elements including magnesium, and very concentrated so the dosage was a lot lower than other products. I also upgraded to a carx so no longer doing 2 part.
 
JVU said:
I used ESV 2-part for about a decade, many years ago when I kept a simpler reef tank before dosers and automation. I thought it was good but stopped mainly because I thought he hadn’t changed the recipe in too many years and was falling behind current understanding for minor/trace elements. Like too old-school. Plus at least at the time they were totally opaque about what was and wasn’t in it, or even if it was Balling style, which is to say tweaking the elements so that NaCl and other elements are kept in correct percentages as the CaCO3 is used up (which I like).

If you are saying he has been tweaking and modernizing it, I’ll take another look.
Click to expand...

Do you think esv bionic 2 part tops all for reef? It was the first one I bought only used it once till I was told all for reef was easier just one thing to pour in.

Is there a easy way to know how much of each part to use without testing every day? Also do you have to test multiple times days in a row to make adjustments in how much esv you need to dose? Also is this possible to be done with a dosing pump without risking nuking the tank?

Sorry if what i'm asking is confusing. My questions is based on my concern of not having a auto tester and not testing daily. Is that something that's needed for saftey with the use of these multiple part solutions?
(I'm fairly sure most of the guys here who's tanks I follow have some type of auto testing/ auto dosing set up.)

I also notice you mentioned PH caused you issues with using afr in a post above is that something we should test for like calc alk and mag?
 
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CaseyP said:
Shameless plug: I have three new 2 liter sets of ATI Essentials Pro available if anyone's interested in trying it out.

Worked great for me, had all the trace elements including magnesium, and very concentrated so the dosage was a lot lower than other products. I also upgraded to a carx so no longer doing 2 part.
Click to expand...


What’s does carx stand for? I tried google but not getting anything revelant in the results.
 
All for reef has been easy: one product, does not affect salinity, easy to buy the salt to make the solution. This is why a chose it initially. But the crystal build up is a pain. And the results are just blah for me. It’s a 180g system. So far I dose about 65-70ml/day to keep Alk at 8.2-8.4 and Ca at 400-420. It’s convenient. Just wish it wouldn’t plug up my lines
 
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gmdcdvm said:
All for reef has been easy: one product, does not affect salinity, easy to buy the salt. This is why a chose it initially. But the crystal build up is a pain. And the results are just blah for me. It’s a 180g system. So far I dose about 65-70ml/day to keep Alk at 8.2-8.4 and Ca at 400-420. It’s convenient. Just wish it would plug up my lines
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Wow, I was thinking my 7ml daily was a lot. I was considering trying to dose it in a dosing pump, I'm definitely gonna ditch that Idea seeing it causes issues for you with clogging tubing.
 
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