The_Lazy_Reefer
Supporting Member
Well I just watched a Berghia fight for it’s life against a brittle star......a good 5 min struggle and the brittle eventually let it go but man I’m thinking with all my critters does that matter to survival.
Anyone breeding Berghia?
- Thread starter JVU
- Start date
The_Lazy_Reefer
Supporting Member
That’s why I watched the whole thing, figured for 15$ I mine as well get a show. It was some cool animal planet level fight but yea the $ certainly was in the front of my mind.
Flagg37
Guest
You didn’t take a video of it?
The_Lazy_Reefer
Supporting Member
Tried but couldn’t get anything better than a Bigfoot quality
Dan-sf
Supporting Member
Certainly not even close to demand though! I think I got PMs from like 15 people who wanted them and I'll have enough for the first 2.
The timeline for me has been as follows:
Jan 8 - Got delivery of 10 1/4" nudis, 7 alive
Jan 15-30 - Nudis started to breed and lay eggs (and once the nudis reach full size, they are laying giant egg spirals ever day)
Feb 15 - Baby nudis start to be seen
Mar 5 - Some nudis grow to small salable size (between 1/4" - 1/2")
It is hard to get an exact count but I think I've got roughly 15 salable nudis right now, and maybe another 10 smaller than that roaming around. I'm going to sell the first 15 and then keep evaluating the situation.
It seems to be the balancing act is as follows:
- Larger nudis eat aiptasias much faster than smaller ones, but they also lay much bigger (and probably more fertile) egg spirals
- Growing a nudi from tiny to 1/4" requires a lot less aiptasia than going from 1/4" to 1/2"
- It takes a little under 2 months to go from egg spiral to salable nudi
So I think the keys are to have a good population of large nudis, but not too many as they'll eat all your aiptasias. Then making sure to sell the salable ones quickly as you don't want them eating all your aiptasias. Also really making sure nothing is eating your nudi eggs (something I'm going to have to deal with for generation 2 -- some amphipods got into my breeding tank!).
I'll keep the tank going and hopefully I can double or triple the size of the next generation just by keeping more large nudis around for a longer period of time so they can lay more eggs. Hopefully my aiptasia supply will hold up. It certainly isn't worth the effort given the amount of money I'm getting back but its a fun little operation for now.
Update-
My Aiptasia tank is doing ok, the little buggers look happy enough. They are slowly growing and increasing numbers, but they aren’t reproducing as much as I’d like. The ones in my display tank are multiplying faster, I guess that’s not surprising since I have conditions optimized better there.
I did try cutting half of them in half a couple weeks ago, and besides those looking unhappy for a while, it didn’t seem to make much difference in the number of individuals.
I haven’t been feeding very much, small amount couple times a week, I could try more but I’ve been busy.
I think I’ll be ready to buy some Berghia soon to breed in a separate smaller tank that I feed with rocks/tiles from this tank, then move into my display.
It’s not pretty, but successful so far:
My Aiptasia tank is doing ok, the little buggers look happy enough. They are slowly growing and increasing numbers, but they aren’t reproducing as much as I’d like. The ones in my display tank are multiplying faster, I guess that’s not surprising since I have conditions optimized better there.
I did try cutting half of them in half a couple weeks ago, and besides those looking unhappy for a while, it didn’t seem to make much difference in the number of individuals.
I haven’t been feeding very much, small amount couple times a week, I could try more but I’ve been busy.
I think I’ll be ready to buy some Berghia soon to breed in a separate smaller tank that I feed with rocks/tiles from this tank, then move into my display.
It’s not pretty, but successful so far:
Dan-sf
Supporting Member
If you are only looking for a few Nudi's (<5) let me know. I can save you the shipping costs.
As an update on my experiment, I ended up selling 25 nudis, put 5 more into my DT and still have at least 10 in there. I underestimated the number of nudis I ended up growing. Interestingly I haven't gotten this generation of nudis to lay any more eggs, even though I've got at least a couple of pretty large well fed nudis. I'm not sure if that is because the amphipods are eating all the eggs or some other reason, but it looks like I'm going to have to setup another tank and try to re-create what worked the first time.
As an update on my experiment, I ended up selling 25 nudis, put 5 more into my DT and still have at least 10 in there. I underestimated the number of nudis I ended up growing. Interestingly I haven't gotten this generation of nudis to lay any more eggs, even though I've got at least a couple of pretty large well fed nudis. I'm not sure if that is because the amphipods are eating all the eggs or some other reason, but it looks like I'm going to have to setup another tank and try to re-create what worked the first time.
Zero Gravitas
Supporting Member
Howdy, Anybody have a majano wand they can rent me?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Coral reefer
Past President
Yes, I’d be interested, though not quite ready for them. We can PM.
I have one. In my experience (which is limited because I stopped using it) they don’t kill aiptasia. They can help to temporarily reduce the size of an aiptasia if that’s of value.
ofzakaria
Guest
I have one,but I promise you it do not work and will make things worst. I promise you it will worsen the issue if they are indeed majano
The_Lazy_Reefer
Supporting Member
Hey I got a whole bunch of Aiptasia rock if anyone wants it. Pickup in Oakland as I’m the frag tank will be shut down tomorrow. Just occurred to me maybe someone wants them.
Dan-sf
Supporting Member
As an update to my prior update, I once again underestimated how many nudibranchs I had. I sold another 10 (before the shelter in place), put another 5 into my DT and still have at least 15 in there. They are rapidly eating all my aiptasias and I'd sell them in a heartbeat, but as a good citizen I'm not violated the shelter in place rules (dont PM me -- I'm a rule follower). So I think I'm just going to end up moving most of them to my DT and let them go to town on the aiptasias which started me on this quest in the first place.
I've now set up another tank that is amphipod free and put some nudibranchs in there, who have dutifully started laying eggs. The nudibranchs in my current nudi tank (with amphipods) are laying eggs all over the place. So this will be a good test as to whether amphipods actually are a problem. Thus far I don't see any evidence of the amphipods eating the eggs, but we'll see what happens.
I'm quickly running out of harvestable aiptasia so I don't know how many more generations I'll be able to sustain this operation, but it was fun while it lasted.
hyacinth
Supporting Member
Ditto--I borrowed a majano wand from a friend to try to zap a few Aiptasias and it worsened the problem.
Dan-sf
Supporting Member
Update to my own post:
In this article I read for research, the author had mentioned that Amphipods are a problem for nudibranch cultures, which I wasn't entirely sure about. I can now corroborate this, but to exactly what degree I'm not sure. In my original tank which had amphipods and many breeding Nudibranchs and eggs, I have seen no evidence of any baby nudibranchs. In my other tank which was setup afterwards specifically to ensure no amphipods got in, I'm now seeing many baby slugs.
So it isn't as simple as just putting in a rock covered with aiptasia and then putting in Nudis and waiting for them to breed. You really have to make sure all those amphipods are dead. The method I'm using is farming Aiptasia from the sandbed (which are generally only attached to a few grains of sand), then giving them a freshwater dip for 5 minutes. This takes care of the amphipods and doesn't seem to harm the aiptasia. Then I put the aiptasia into the breeding tank. Thus far this has done a good job of keeping the amphipods out.
I do wonder what method the professional breeders use, because there is no way they are farming the aiptasia like I am, it is way too labor intensive. I wonder if they take rocks covered in aiptasia then use some type of dip that kills amphipods but doesn't harm the nudibranchs.
Very interesting! The standard coral dips we use also kill amphipods, copepods, etc. I wonder how that would compare with fresh water dip?
This might also go a long way toward explaining why so many people have trouble with Berghia not reproducing well in their display tank even though they don’t have the known predators.
Dan-sf
Supporting Member
I do believe this is happening in my DT, which is absolutely teeming with amphipods. But there are so many variables it is hard to say for sure. And I do expect to find some baby slugs in the tank that contains amphipods (although that remains to be seen), but it is clear already that the numbers are going to be much less than the amphipod-free tank.
So I think from the perspective of breeding them for volume keeping amphipods out is a big deal. In the DT I think the more amphipods you have the longer it will take (or the more nudis you should start with) because the amphipods will prevent the nudi population from growing as quickly as it could otherwise.
Update for my attempts to breed Berghia-
I picked up some Berghia from @Dan-sf a couple weeks ago, and from @The_Lazy_Reefer this morning. Both sets were very healthy and very much appreciated!!
In addition to my 10g Aiptasia grow-out tank I already showed, I have started a 2.7g Berghia breeding tank with 2g water, heater, air pump, and small filter sponge for bacteria on the air line. Near complete water changes 1/week or so using tank water. They seem pretty happy. I believe I’ve kept out amphipods and all other visible critters, it’s a simple tank so I can see everything well.
I picked up some Berghia from @Dan-sf a couple weeks ago, and from @The_Lazy_Reefer this morning. Both sets were very healthy and very much appreciated!!
In addition to my 10g Aiptasia grow-out tank I already showed, I have started a 2.7g Berghia breeding tank with 2g water, heater, air pump, and small filter sponge for bacteria on the air line. Near complete water changes 1/week or so using tank water. They seem pretty happy. I believe I’ve kept out amphipods and all other visible critters, it’s a simple tank so I can see everything well.