Kessil

Are you growing anything out for the next frag swap?

richiev said:
I am 100% confident I have gotten MEN from club members. One was at a meetup earlier in the year. One came from a freebie years ago (different tank I ended up tearing down). It's why I quarantine, I get stuff happens and I don't hold it against anyone. Especially since it was free, and unless proven otherwise I assume it was unknown. I've also once had a tank get disease from a well known online site that sells cleanup crews, and have gotten flukes from a LFS, and .... That class of issues bugs me more, but again, we all kinda know how that is how it goes (that's why I buy quarantined or QT myself all the things, including snails).

I am 100% not going to name names here.

My take, feel free to coordinate with folks who are interested, and as with others go ahead and DBTC with pre-coordinated setups where people know what they're getting. I wouldn't put them in a table with other misc stuff b/c it's too easy to go awry or have someone not fully informed about it grab it.

The practical realities is someone getting a piece, cutting to fresh tissue, and glue'ing to a fresh plug is probably lower risk than someone getting some other frag from the swap (or LFS) and putting it in without doing that. Similarly someone grabbing a sweet, brand new, frag from a LFS to bring in. However, worth making the expectation folks shouldn't bring known questionable things so that new folks don't start bringing unlabeled questionable stuff.
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Definitely agree. I just dont know how people don’t realize they have major pests such as MEN. I came to the conclusion within 1 month of my tank becoming infected
 
With how big of an issue this is, it really just makes me not want to have any montis now. I dont want to feel like I cant swap my corals because I’ve done my due diligence and discovered I got MEN, or have people not want to swap with me for it
 
Fish Boss said:
Also, about this point specifically, I truly believe we are in the thick of it now. 2 members (myself included) have got MEN from the last swap. Good chance there are others that dont know. @richiev has mentioned how they have got MEN from our swaps before.

I think this issue needs to be dealt with now if the objective is to protect the club
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Fish Boss said:
I dont think people are realizing how far spread they already are spread in our club, and I feel like, many members dont know they have them.
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+1.

My montipora have no bite marks. No patchy or weird growth. No reduced polyp extension. In fact, coloration has become richer and growth has sped up in the past month, a time when I for sure had nudibranchs. I would not even know if I had not happened to see a single nudibranch on the side glass. I am 100% certain that there are multiple members who have these nudibranchs and do not know it. Both @Fish Boss and I only found out about this from actually seeing one on the glass by chance.

Because of this I don't blame anyone for having MEN and spreading it - it's so possible that they had no idea.

@JVU No worries I agree and these are very valid concerns.

For what it's worth, my tank is now 100% Monti free. Fallow period starts now
 
MichaelB said:
Thanks for the information I wasn't aware, I don't think I currently have either in my tanks. I will probably keep it that way for a while.
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MarcosDelgado0 said:
Somewhere in that thread they mentioned they went after coral other than Montis so keep that in mind
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Oof - missed one. Some people say they can also eat porites, which considering how similar montipora and porites are and look (especially the bouldering types), I don't doubt
 
This topic has still been on my mind. With how persistent MEN are, I feel like its an all or nothing situation. If we want to eliminate the issue, all members have to persistent in seeing if they have them, and if so, have to really try to eliminate them. If a few members aren’t persistent and dont eliminate them, they will continue to be distributed in swaps, and everyone elses effort will be for naught.

As far as not putting in corals to a swap if you know you have pests, (this is a rare mindset) but what about the people that have the mindset that you will inevitably get unwanted organisms in your tank, and go with a heavy predator solution to keep numbers down, I.E. wrasses. Are they going to be dissuaded from swapping?

It really sucks that this is where we are at, but I feel like if the club really wants to protect its reputation, we need to take a heavy handed approach to this problem
 
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I know that I’ve been mainly just complaining here, so I’ll offer up some potential precautions/solutions

First off, I think its great how much the club emphasizes dipping coral, and will handing out KCL last swap was awesome. I think this is a great baseline in general.

I think MEN specifically should be discussed at future swaps. If any other pests start becoming a common problem, we should start mentioning those too. Having pictures, or having live specimens to view in person can help as well.

Technically these pests roam and can be anywhere in our tanks, but I think effort will be most efficient and best used focusing on the targeted species, montis/anacropora/porites. People that want to bring these to the swap should check their frags daily for one week before the swap. Check 1 hour after lights out, one hour before lights on, etc.

We should reach out to professionals to see if they have any more input/suggestions. Maybe @Thales can have some good information?

This is just what I came up with off the top of my head, I will add more if I come up with more ideas
 
The expectation is that if you know you have a serious pest, don’t bring any coral.

That being said - assume that every frag you get online/CFM/swap/LFS has every pest imaginable and act accordingly. Whatever this means for you - dipping, inspecting, quarantine, or just rolling the dice.

Most people do not knowingly share infested frags but it happens, a lot. Assume they are all infested and take precautions.
 
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derek_SR said:
The expectation is that if you know you have a pest, don’t bring any coral.

That being said - assume that every frag you get online/CFM/swap/LFS has every pest imaginable and act accordingly. Whatever this means for you - dipping, inspecting, quarantine, or just rolling the dice.

Most people do not knowingly share infested frags but it happens, a lot. Assume they are all infested and take precautions.
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And what can we do to lessen this issue? Educate people. Knowledge is power. Show them what the organism looks like. Teach them about the organisms habits. Nicely inform them if you are near certain that you got a pest from them
 
derek_SR said:
The expectation is that if you know you have a serious pest, don’t bring any coral.

That being said - assume that every frag you get online/CFM/swap/LFS has every pest imaginable and act accordingly. Whatever this means for you - dipping, inspecting, quarantine, or just rolling the dice.

Most people do not knowingly share infested frags but it happens, a lot. Assume they are all infested and take precautions.
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Fish Boss said:
And what can we do to lessen this issue? Educate people. Knowledge is power. Show them what the organism looks like. Teach them about the organisms habits. Nicely inform them if you are near certain that you got a pest from them
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Might be a good idea to elaborate on what we all consider pests. Visually with large color prints of them and a simple break down of what they are and why they are considered a pest. To display at swaps.

Most of the time it’s unknowingly passed around as you guys have mentioned. And less likely to be a nefarious act when it’s just a members only swap. But when we’ve had open swaps that’s where the education of pests and best practices to handle them when someone gets them or help prevent getting and passing around.
 
DaddyHook said:
Might be a good idea to elaborate on what we all consider pests. Visually with large color prints of them and a simple break down of what they are and why they are considered a pest. To display at swaps.

Most of the time it’s unknowingly passed around as you guys have mentioned. And less likely to be a nefarious act when it’s just a members only swap. But when we’ve had open swaps that’s where the education of pests and best practices to handle them when someone gets them or help prevent getting and passing around.
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100%. I dont think people are nefarious about passing around pests. I just believe the club can be doing more to educate, and individuals can be more proactive, even if they think they dont have pests. I’d love to hear what others think, but I think checking your frags after lights out can make somewhat of a difference in discovering of pests. I dont know about other pests, but I discovered MEN much more consistently when tank was dark, or as the lights came on
 
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This maybe a great meet up lecture with slides on the topic of pest we record it and can upload it as well.

Signs
How to Treat/ inspect for them methods

This won't be solved at a frag swap.
But i could picture a lecture or presentation during a swap prehaps from a educational prospective.
 
MichaelB said:
This maybe a great meet up lecture with slides on the topic of pest we record it and can upload it as well.

Signs
How to Treat/ inspect for them methods

This won't be solved at a frag swap.
But i could picture a lecture or presentation during a swap prehaps from a educational prospective.
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I agree this won’t be solved at a frag swap

The frag swaps already feel so rushed. I doubt we’d have enough time to do a whole lecture/presentation at one.
Fish Boss said:
100%. I dont think people are nefarious about passing around pests. I just believe the club can be doing more to educate, and individuals can be more proactive, even if they think they dont have pests. I’d love to hear what others think, but I think checking your frags after lights out can make somewhat of a difference in discovering of pests. I dont know about other pests, but I discovered MEN much more consistently when tank was dark, or as the lights came on
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While I think it’s a good idea checking frags daily a week before the swap, I think it’s unrealistic for it to actually happen. Too many people and too many corals to be able to do it 100%. I think the current method of “assume every coral has pests” makes sense considering we won’t get everyone to check for pests as suggested.

There’s also A TON of great content on pest ID and treatments on here and online. I think if people really wanted to educate themselves on this topic, it wouldn’t be hard to do. Something more realistic than a presentation would be someone make a forum post and attach resources for people to learn about this stuff
 
Considering MEN happening right now, maybe could be worth for the club to buy and distribute potassium permanganate at the next swap as an organized effort of handing them out to everyone at the entrance as a freebie.

It’s $16.29 for a pound, which can make roughly 9,000 liters of dip solution. Maybe we get an extra container in case - either way it’s not exorbitant

If the club can’t just distribute funds like this I might be able to do smaller or fewer portions since I’m getting a few ounce container for myself anyway
 
MarcosDelgado0 said:
I agree this won’t be solved at a frag swap

The frag swaps already feel so rushed. I doubt we’d have enough time to do a whole lecture/presentation at one.
While I think it’s a good idea checking frags daily a week before the swap, I think it’s unrealistic for it to actually happen. Too many people and too many corals to be able to do it 100%. I think the current method of “assume every coral has pests” makes sense considering we won’t get everyone to check for pests as suggested.

There’s also A TON of great content on pest ID and treatments on here and online. I think if people really wanted to educate themselves on this topic, it wouldn’t be hard to do. Something more realistic than a presentation would be someone make a forum post and attach resources for people to learn about this stuff
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Of course not everyone will do it, but if it is suggested and talked about, there is a chance that more people will do it. As far as too many corals go, thats why I suggested checking montis/anacropora/porites, the corals that are affected by the current most common pest. More efficient use of time and effort
 
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Just curious with the hundreds of frags at frag swaps have any of the people checking in frags ever denied one frag due to not looking good or observed pests since its rather a quick process. I agree its not anyone task nor responsibility screening frags for pests and mainly honor system but every single frag swap the message is clearly passed loudly
“When I dip, you dip, we dip
You put your hand upon my frag
When you dip, I dip, we dip”
 
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