blue ridge octocoral

[anathema]

Yes, I totally agree brown corals can have character. I used to have a massive brown porites. It came in on live rock as a small piece and grew over the entire rock in a couple years time. When I took my tank down, of course no one wanted it, so I took it to TP (wayback when) and gave it to them along with some other odds and ends.

A week later I stopped by again my rock was for sale.

2 weeks later my rock was for sale.

3 weeks later my rock was priced lower than a piece of live rock with no coral on it.

Just saying, they are usually the last corals in line when it comes down to it.

Heliopora is scientifically interesting, and kind of cool in a way. However you asked if it was a good looking coral.

I thought millepora was a caribbean species? Am I mistaken?

 

[GreshamH]

I don;t know if there are any Millipora sp in the ATL, I do know the ones imported come from the Pacific though

OT:

Wanna laugh... read this: http://www.reefcorner.com/SpecimenSheets/millipora_PinkYellow.htm

I think they are rather confused... case and point with regards to "don't believe everything websites say".

 

[seminolecpa]

If you are looking for a fine brown coral, you need to see if anyone still has a piece of my Ugly Efflo..... Now that was a fine brown coral specimen.

 

[r0ck0]

Yes, I totally agree brown corals can have character. I used to have a massive brown porites. It came in on live rock as a small piece and grew over the entire rock in a couple years time. When I took my tank down, of course no one wanted it, so I took it to TP (wayback when) and gave it to them along with some other odds and ends.

A week later I stopped by again my rock was for sale.

2 weeks later my rock was for sale.

3 weeks later my rock was priced lower than a piece of live rock with no coral on it.

Just saying, they are usually the last corals in line when it comes down to it.

Heliopora is scientifically interesting, and kind of cool in a way. However you asked if it was a good looking coral.

I thought millepora was a caribbean species? Am I mistaken?

I think the brown of the Millepora alcicornis is nice. Its not a brown like a colorless acro. The whole look of the coral is neat; smooth skin, delicate branches, wispy polyps. Its something different. What I read was that the Millepora alcicornis is a caribbean native. Anyone got a frag of it?

 

[GreshamH]

Yes, I totally agree brown corals can have character. I used to have a massive brown porites. It came in on live rock as a small piece and grew over the entire rock in a couple years time. When I took my tank down, of course no one wanted it, so I took it to TP (wayback when) and gave it to them along with some other odds and ends.

A week later I stopped by again my rock was for sale.

2 weeks later my rock was for sale.

3 weeks later my rock was priced lower than a piece of live rock with no coral on it.

Just saying, they are usually the last corals in line when it comes down to it.

Heliopora is scientifically interesting, and kind of cool in a way. However you asked if it was a good looking coral.

I thought millepora was a caribbean species? Am I mistaken?

I think the brown of the Millepora alcicornis is nice. Its not a brown like a colorless acro. The whole look of the coral is neat; smooth skin, delicate branches, wispy polyps. Its something different. What I read was that the Millepora alcicornis is a caribbean native. Anyone got a frag of it?

Given it does not come on ATL live rock (the only legal way to get Caribbean corals)... legally how would a person have it? If they did and they were dumb enough to say "I got some" they would be admitting guilt and they will be opening up a slam dunk case against themselves. The Lacy Act would be in full effect.

You'll have a MUCH easier time finding the two genus I listed above.

 

[r0ck0]

Yes, I totally agree brown corals can have character. I used to have a massive brown porites. It came in on live rock as a small piece and grew over the entire rock in a couple years time. When I took my tank down, of course no one wanted it, so I took it to TP (wayback when) and gave it to them along with some other odds and ends.

A week later I stopped by again my rock was for sale.

2 weeks later my rock was for sale.

3 weeks later my rock was priced lower than a piece of live rock with no coral on it.

Just saying, they are usually the last corals in line when it comes down to it.

Heliopora is scientifically interesting, and kind of cool in a way. However you asked if it was a good looking coral.

I thought millepora was a caribbean species? Am I mistaken?

I think the brown of the Millepora alcicornis is nice. Its not a brown like a colorless acro. The whole look of the coral is neat; smooth skin, delicate branches, wispy polyps. Its something different. What I read was that the Millepora alcicornis is a caribbean native. Anyone got a frag of it?

Given it does not come on ATL live rock (the only legal way to get Caribbean corals)... legally how would a person have it? If they did and they were dumb enough to say "I got some" they would be admitting guilt and they will be opening up a slam dunk case against themselves. The Lacy Act would be in full effect.

You'll have a MUCH easier time finding the two genus I listed above.

I can cut the condensation with a knife.

 

[GreshamH]

Yes, I totally agree brown corals can have character. I used to have a massive brown porites. It came in on live rock as a small piece and grew over the entire rock in a couple years time. When I took my tank down, of course no one wanted it, so I took it to TP (wayback when) and gave it to them along with some other odds and ends.

A week later I stopped by again my rock was for sale.

2 weeks later my rock was for sale.

3 weeks later my rock was priced lower than a piece of live rock with no coral on it.

Just saying, they are usually the last corals in line when it comes down to it.

Heliopora is scientifically interesting, and kind of cool in a way. However you asked if it was a good looking coral.

I thought millepora was a caribbean species? Am I mistaken?

I think the brown of the Millepora alcicornis is nice. Its not a brown like a colorless acro. The whole look of the coral is neat; smooth skin, delicate branches, wispy polyps. Its something different. What I read was that the Millepora alcicornis is a caribbean native. Anyone got a frag of it?

Given it does not come on ATL live rock (the only legal way to get Caribbean corals)... legally how would a person have it? If they did and they were dumb enough to say "I got some" they would be admitting guilt and they will be opening up a slam dunk case against themselves. The Lacy Act would be in full effect.

You'll have a MUCH easier time finding the two genus I listed above.

I can cut the condensation with a knife.

If that's how you so choose to read it, then so be it... but that is not how I wrote it nor the intention. I was simply informing you of the illegal nature of said coral given it comes from a place you can't get coral from.

FWIW I am utterly against the keeping of corals that are illegal to posses as I suspect the majority of reefers that want to keep reefing into the future would be of like mind. Dealing in the illegal trade is a great way to destroy this hobby. In the last 10 years alone the attention to our trade by USF&WS, NOAA, NGO's and regulators has vastly increased. We've had a half dozen bills aimed right at our heads and luckily we have avoided the main intention they had (to shut the trade down).

 

[r0ck0]

I wasn't aware that it was an illegal coral. You assume I am out to break the law by some back room dealing in coral?

Edit: It existed before it was illegal so it's not entirely impossible that somewhere in the world there actually might be a piece of it that wasn't obtained illegally and therefore wouldn't be illegal to have?

 

[houser]

Look,
I'll cut you both some brown coral OK.

 

[GreshamH]

I wasn't aware that it was an illegal coral. You assume I am out to break the law by some back room dealing in coral?

Edit: It existed before it was illegal so it's not entirely impossible that somewhere in the world there actually might be a piece of it that wasn't obtained illegally and therefore wouldn't be illegal to have?

I made no such assumption nor do I feel I implied that, geesh. All most all coral that lives with in US waters are illegal to posses. There are a few exceptions to this, and those would be the ones that come one live rock farmed in Florida.

Given how CITES and USF&WS works, you could only obtain it in the US as it could not be legally imported. You might very well be able to find some that some one had prior to the listing on CITES, but that is a very hard thing to prove (for both sides, which is why there has yet to be a coral Lacy Act case put forth on a "hobbyist") and something I wouldn't test fate on given how serious a Lacy Act case can be.

FWIW it was first listed in 1985.

BUT.... it is NOT limited to the ATL according to the CITES entry for it...

American Samoa , Aruba , Bahamas , Barbados , Belize , Bermuda , Brazil , British Virgin Islands , Cape Verde , Cayman Islands , Colombia , Costa Rica , Cuba , Dominican Republic , Guadeloupe , Haiti , Honduras , Indonesia , Martinique , Mauritius , Mexico , Montserrat , Netherlands Antilles , Nicaragua , Panama , Puerto Rico , Saint Lucia , Tonga , United States of America , United States Virgin Islands , Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of)

I bolded two countries that cuold in theory export it.

 

[Matt_Wandell]

Matt have you seen that species of Millepora offered before?

Not sure. DD used to offer an aquacultured Millepora sp. It was definitely thin and branching like M. alcicornis, but I really have no idea what species it was.

FWIW Charles has some Millepora sp. that grew out of a piece of Caribbean live rock and has now completely covered one of his gorgonians. Looks kinda cool, dunno what species it is. AFAIU he obtained this rock through sources that are available to hobbyists but I could be wrong about that.

 

[GreshamH]

CITES reports it in the pacific as well... Veron doesn't go into it beyond genus

I'll ask Richard but I have never seen Millipora sp. on his rock before and I'm not sure where else you can get aquacultured "deco" rock? Who else sells it?

 

[Matt_Wandell]

Not sure where Dr. Delbeek got his rock from, but I'll ask. The vast majority (maybe all?) of the rock in that tank is Caribbean but there could be a fluke Pac piece I don't know about. Not sure where he purchased it either. How's that for vague non-helpful answers! I'll update tomorrow.

 

[Matt_Wandell]

"The rock came from SeaLife Inc in the Keys, Ken Nediemeyer's company. The [Millepora sp.] was on the rock."

 

[GreshamH]

AHhhh yes Sealife... http://www.sealifeinc.net/catalog/index.php

Here's the link to the rock... http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=31

Premium Cultured Live Rock (uncured)
This is our choicest aquacultured live rock. Aquacultured live rock is one of our specialties. We have the oldest offshore live rock aquaculture site in The Florida Keys, and its unique location results in some spectacular live rock. We hand select every rock that goes in the water, and leave them on the bottom for at least two years until they are ready to be harvested. By our standard, the rock is not ready until it has at least 75% coverage by some sort of coralline algae or other durable, reef friendly, encrusting invertebrate. Many rocks will have some sort of live coral growing on them, usually some sort of Porites, Siderastrea, or Millipora. Green macro algae such as Halimida and Caulerpa are also common, as are a wide variety of brown fleshy algae.

This grade of rock is uncured, which means that you'll get all the bugs, starfish and creepy crawlers that normally inhabit the rock. We can cure the rock if you want, but you'll have to ask for it to be cured (no extra charge, just a little extra time).

The rock we use is an extremely porous type of limestone called "Miami Oolite", which is very high in aragonite and is relatively light and full of big holes. We don't buy machine sorted rock so we don't boast of having millions of pounds of rock in the water, but what we do have is very high quality.

Live sand and live rocks are not included in the $35 shipping and handling price. There a few different shipping options for this product please contact me so that we can make the best shipping arrangement possible. A ballpark estimate for shipping is $1.20 a pound for two day or priority mail, and about $2.250 a pound for FedEx Standard Overnight. We recommend overnight because it is live rock and we want it to stay that way.

If you're interested in over a hundred pounds of rock, we would suggest you consider using airfreight for you shipping method. Shipping charges will be around $1.00 a pound but you'll need to go to the cargo section of your nearest major airport to pick up the freight.

I bet you could request a rock with it on it as well Thanks Matt.

 

[GDawson]

I bet you could request a rock with it on it as well Thanks Matt.

If it comes on aquacultured rock are there laws regarding the fragging of such material?

-Gregory

 

[r0ck0]

AHhhh yes Sealife... http://www.sealifeinc.net/catalog/index.php

Here's the link to the rock... http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=31

Premium Cultured Live Rock (uncured)
This is our choicest aquacultured live rock. Aquacultured live rock is one of our specialties. We have the oldest offshore live rock aquaculture site in The Florida Keys, and its unique location results in some spectacular live rock. We hand select every rock that goes in the water, and leave them on the bottom for at least two years until they are ready to be harvested. By our standard, the rock is not ready until it has at least 75% coverage by some sort of coralline algae or other durable, reef friendly, encrusting invertebrate. Many rocks will have some sort of live coral growing on them, usually some sort of Porites, Siderastrea, or Millipora. Green macro algae such as Halimida and Caulerpa are also common, as are a wide variety of brown fleshy algae.

I bet you could request a rock with it on it as well Thanks Matt.

Do you really think they would hand pick one rock with a millipora seed colony on it? I would pay $3.50 a pound for the rock and $2.25 a pound for shipping. Not a bad deal.

 

[GreshamH]

I suspect Ken would charge much more if you were only going for a single rock, but it's worth emailing him and asking.

 

[GreshamH]

I bet you could request a rock with it on it as well Thanks Matt.

If it comes on aquacultured rock are there laws regarding the fragging of such material?

-Gregory

It's one legal way to get it and fragging would be fine. The farmers won't send corals you can't have (Acropora cervicornis & Acropora palmata as they are on the ESA list - http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/esa/invertebrates.htm )