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Brandie's 210 Upgrade

goldielocke76

goldielocke76

Supporting Member
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**Warning: This will be a long thread. I am in no hurry to do this. So keep the teasing comments to a minimum.... LOL jkjk ;) **

You all did read right. I am in the thinking stages of an upgrade. I have decided after looking at some of the tank dimensions that I like the 180 gallon tank dimensions the best.

I plan on pulling a Denzil and am planning on building the stand and canopy from scratch. So again, this will be a long process. Since I have just gotten the 90 up and going, I am in no big hurry yet. You guys will laugh when you hear my motivation: MOAR TANGS!!! :D (MOAR FISH!!)

I will put up some plans as soon as Denzil teaches me how to use the software he used for his stand ;)

But for right now, I am thinking of doing a drain system like aqua-nut, since it was so quiet but also, possibly having two drains, and two skimmers? Not sure yet. Going to look into this a bit more, but I do know that I would like at least a 90 gallon sump.

So if you guys have any advice or ideas, please feel free to post them here. :)
 
Yay.... a upgrade ! I guess Denzil's going to be real busy. :D

What type of tangs are you thinking of ? Are you going to run one skimmer dry and one wet ?How about lights ? Return pump ? Powerheads ? I like the sump size also. :)
 
Talk to Bill (Cookiejar) about the reflectors he's selling...they are the same ones I use (if you go the MH route). Look into the water blaster pumps...quite and energy efficient. Running a skimmer "dry" simply means you don't get watery skimate, but rather a more dense skimate. I think my premium blacker ice ran $250 for the pair. Ask Ed (KM Maintenance) about them and the nakeds also.

I like the list of fish also !
 
gimmito said:
Yay.... a upgrade ! I guess Denzil's going to be real busy. :D

What type of tangs are you thinking of ? Are you going to run one skimmer dry and one wet ?How about lights ? Return pump ? Powerheads ? I like the sump size also. :)
Click to expand...

Let's see...

Lights: I am torn. I have been thinking of adding one metal halide. Maybe thinking of doing something like you do? 14ks on the out side, one 20k in the middle? I really like the light colors on your tank. Canopy system will be similar to what I have now: I like the fan set up, it keeps everything really cool. Although I think I may do something different for the reflectors. OR do the 180 gallon solderless LED kits from rapid LED. Again, on the fence about this right now. We ran tentative numbers for electricity bill purposes for the current tank, and I'd only be saving ~$140 a year, taking at least 3 years for the kit to pay for itself. But with the bigger tank, and bigger numbers, that may just be a deciding factor.

Return pump: not sure yet. I am really considering keeping the stand on the lower side; I am short enough as it is and really don't want to pull out my fins and snorkle mask to have to work on the tank ;) I may go with a wider versus taller stand.

Skimmers: Looked into the dry skimmer, I didn't realize that was what it was until I googled it. Again, I am going to have to look at the stand design. My original thought was keeping it in the sump, but I want as much water volume as possible... hrrm. But, I do know that I am going to be looking at some of the sump systems at Neptunes and Aqua Exotic heavily. I really like how the rock in the drain has really worked out for me and the tank, and I believe that having the drain go directly into the rock can help cut down on noise. We shall see the farther I get along.

Powerheads: Definitely either tunze or mp60s. Since I am happy with my 90, I am more than happy to take as long as I need to save up for these. I want one or two of those pump rocks too ;)

And now fish: my favorite part!
A handful of more yellows; maybe 2-3 depending on stocking. Definitely at least one more.
Purple tang (or 2?)
Powder blue tang
Hippo tang (DORY)
Blue Caribbean tang
white bristle tooth tang (if I can find one)

I'd also like to add another set of clowns. Thanks to SA, I love their blacker ice clowns, but cost is prohibitive. Isn't it like, $400 for a pair? As much as I like them, I may go with nekkids. But I'd like to get at least one more pair...

Also add 1-2 more male anthias, and a handful of females.

Diamond watchman goby

Yasha goby pair with shrimp.

Coral beauty angelfish

Male melanarus wrasse (for my female)

Red pair of mandarins if they can be found in reasonable health

I think this covers my wants. LOL. Still have to do research on stocking, but this list completes "my favorites" haha.
 
gimmito said:
Talk to Bill (Cookiejar) about the reflectors he's selling...they are the same ones I use (if you go the MH route). Look into the water blaster pumps...quite and energy efficient. Running a skimmer "dry" simply means you don't get watery skimate, but rather a more dense skimate. I think my premium blacker ice ran $250 for the pair. Ask Ed (KM Maintenance) about them and the nakeds also.

I like the list of fish also !
Click to expand...

The more I think about it, the more I think I am going to go with an LED kit. Only because, I don't want to add to the energy that we are already using, and if I go with LEDs, that means that I will have some wiggle room when it comes to pumps and what not.

Definitely look into the water blasters. It's going to be all about "how quiet can I make it?" LoL.

I did look online at the skimmers, and I think I will go dry. However, I have to look at the heights of the skimmers that are out there and look into what make and model I want to get. As much as I don't want to make this tank hugely tall, I have to have room for an awesome skimmer. Skimming is a must, as I love my fish. This may also make it easier to make a section for an ATO... hrmm...

I'll definitely ask about the clowns! Thank you for the info :D

Glad the fish list looks good. :D I am not sure how many fish will be considered as "overstocking" the 180, so I am looking into that. But I think, unless I find something else that I just "have to have" that's about it. I'd love to do more wrasse, but I am afraid about pods, but, then again, 180 with 4 mandarins and a few wrasse may not be so bad.....
 
gimmito said:
Yay.... a upgrade ! I guess Denzil's going to be real busy. :D

What type of tangs are you thinking of ? Are you going to run one skimmer dry and one wet ?How about lights ? Return pump ? Powerheads ? I like the sump size also. :)
Click to expand...
I hate you so much right now, Jim, haha. :)

All I gotta say is that's going to be a lot of salt, haha.

Like Brandie said, the name of the game for that tank will be how quiet, nice looking, and cost effective we can get it!
 
denzil said:
gimmito said:
Yay.... a upgrade ! I guess Denzil's going to be real busy. :D

What type of tangs are you thinking of ? Are you going to run one skimmer dry and one wet ?How about lights ? Return pump ? Powerheads ? I like the sump size also. :)
Click to expand...
I hate you so much right now, Jim, haha. :)

All I gotta say is that's going to be a lot of salt, haha.

Like Brandie said, the name of the game for that tank will be how quiet, nice looking, and cost effective we can get it!
Click to expand...


Actually, I am going to try to take on the work as much as I can. of course there will be some stuff that I need help with, but, the more I sit here and think about it, the more and more ideas I get ^.^

But yes, quiet and cost effective is the goal. Hopefully, I will be able to achieve both. :D
 
I've been looking online and can't seem to find anything. I was thinking about doing a beananimal overflow system but my only problem with it is the piping in the back. If I do decide to go this route, would it work if there was a big overflow in the back of the tank? Or would it work if you did three seperate compartments for the over flow, one in each corner, then the middle of the tank? Does anyone know? I'm still searching for an answer....

And before you think to yourself "eww.. why would she put an overflow in the tank?" just know that I have big plans for these overflows that will be incorporated into my overall acquacape. Not only that, the idea of pipes out of the tank against the wall just makes me shudder. I'd rather keep everything in the tank personally. More on that later :)
 
denzil said:
I hate you so much right now, Jim, haha. :)
Click to expand...
See what happens when you guys come over and visit ? :p
denzil said:
All I gotta say is that's going to be a lot of salt, haha.
Click to expand...
Salt, electricity, food, equipment, etc.

denzil said:
Like Brandie said, the name of the game for that tank will be how quiet, nice looking, and cost effective we can get it!
Click to expand...
The quietest pumps I've heard are the red dragon pumps...look into the Vertex alpha 250 skimmer also. I saw a used one on RC for a good price recently.
 
goldielocke76 said:
I've been looking online and can't seem to find anything. I was thinking about doing a beananimal overflow system but my only problem with it is the piping in the back. If I do decide to go this route, would it work if there was a big overflow in the back of the tank? Or would it work if you did three seperate compartments for the over flow, one in each corner, then the middle of the tank? Does anyone know? I'm still searching for an answer....

And before you think to yourself "eww.. why would she put an overflow in the tank?" just know that I have big plans for these overflows that will be incorporated into my overall acquacape. Not only that, the idea of pipes out of the tank against the wall just makes me shudder. I'd rather keep everything in the tank personally. More on that later :)
Click to expand...


Good questions Brandie. The bean animal has a main drain, secondary drain, and a emergency drain with siphon break correct ? If you have the drains far apart it's a little harder dialing them in so they drain equally. Although, in my setup it's like that and I have ballvalves on four 1 1/2" drains so I can dial them in to get the drain quite.

Is this going to be custom made ? If so, maybe you can talk to Gen about drain options.
 
When you get bit by the bug you get bit HARD! :) I love the 180 form factor too. Just wouldn't fit in our living room! This is going to be a fun build. Time to get out the popcorn and watch!

When it comes to the BeanAnimal overflow, check out the thread on RC, 'Silent and Failsafe Overflow System'. It's a whopper, broken into two threads totaling over 250 pages! BeanAnimal also has his own website, beananimal.com.

The basic principal is to have three drains, the main which is a full siphon, the secondary which handles all the flow the main doesn't and the emergency which takes over if 1 or 2 fail. Most of the examples you'll see are of all three grouped together. There is no need for this. In fact, I'd consider them safer if there was the separation you suggest. That way one large organism, a nem?, couldn't plug all three. Only the main is controlled by a ball or gate valve, so put that where it's easy to get to. That drain is valved down to handle most, but not all, of the flow the return produces. The small remainder goes down the secondary.

Another benefit is the drain pipe size doesn't need to be as large as a traditional drain. The full siphon can handle a huge flow because there is no air in it to cause turbulence. Also since the lions share of the flow into the sump is without air, there is little splashing and the related salt creep.

Can you tell I'm a fan? :)
 
I wasn't planning in custom make, tbh. But, I may think about it. Originally I planned on just getting a tank, then drilling the overflows myself. Customs seem to be big $$$ and don't get me wrong, I love them, but for our cost effective goal, I wasn't sure if that was reasonable.

Three separate drains yes, but I did plan on ball valves, easily accessible, on all three. :)
 
aqua-nut said:
When you get bit by the bug you get bit HARD! :) I love the 180 form factor too. Just wouldn't fit in our living room! This is going to be a fun build. Time to get out the popcorn and watch!

When it comes to the BeanAnimal overflow, check out the thread on RC, 'Silent and Failsafe Overflow System'. It's a whopper, broken into two threads totaling over 250 pages! BeanAnimal also has his own website, beananimal.com.

The basic principal is to have three drains, the main which is a full siphon, the secondary which handles all the flow the main doesn't and the emergency which takes over if 1 or 2 fail. Most of the examples you'll see are of all three grouped together. There is no need for this. In fact, I'd consider them safer if there was the separation you suggest. That way one large organism, a nem?, couldn't plug all three. Only the main is controlled by a ball or gate valve, so put that where it's easy to get to. That drain is valved down to handle most, but not all, of the flow the return produces. The small remainder goes down the secondary.

Another benefit is the drain pipe size doesn't need to be as large as a traditional drain. The full siphon can handle a huge flow because there is no air in it to cause turbulence. Also since the lions share of the flow into the sump is without air, there is little splashing and the related salt creep.

Can you tell I'm a fan? :)
Click to expand...

Good to know! Thank you :D I'll check that thread out later today. Question is now, would it be possible, if I set it up like this, to do three returns instead of one big one? That way I can hopefully get smaller-ish return pumps, and if one fails, I still have two others working. Not only that, it would give me more options for flow... Hopefully that idea doesn't defeat the purpose of the beananimal overflow system... LoL.

And again, overflows in the tank don't bother me. I want to actually aquscape a 3D background with ledges so I can put frags on there ;) no more egg crate in my tanks for frags! LoL, I am going to make all the ledges so they will have spots for frags, but also look good ;) That's the current plan anyways.

And yes, I got bit hard. If I had been setting up this tank for a different reason to begin with, I would have gone bigger, but at the time it was for a puffer, not tangs, so length of a tank didn't factor in. But as I do have my 90 up and running, I am taking a while on this to I will not only have things look the way I want, but also, I can learn how to do things on my 90 for a while. I mean, it hasn't even been set up for a year yet... LoL
 
BeanAnimal shows three valves. I think that is because he is and engineer, a tad bit anal and a showoff with his CAD program! :) :)

Other that shutting down the drains for maintenance, there is no need for all three. Just another source of turbulence and noise.
 
Brandie, my last post was responding to your post #11.

I'm not sure what you mean by using more than one return pump. IMHO it's better to get the capacity you need in one pump, buy two of them and keep the second for a spare. The BA system needs a constant inflow. If you change the return pumps you need to reset the main drain flow. Not a big deal, but if it isn't done, the system sounds amazingly like a toilet flushing! :)

Read the RC thread, it'll all make sense. It'll take a while to read... :)

I drained my tank, otherwise I'd show you what happens when the main is not balanced.
 
Capacity is better, I understand that, but my concern in a 6 ft long tank is that the flow will be strongest on one end, and then putter out getting closer to the other side of the tank. In having 3, smaller pumps that I plan on booting with rubber, I'm hoping to keep down costs, get a lot of flow and surface agitation out of it, and if the pump does go out and I don't have an extra, all is not lost and dependent on that one pump. Besides, hopefully replacement parts are cheaper and easier to come by with smaller pumps. In addition to the three return pumps, I am hoping to have a doubled ended fuge/sump. On either end, ideallly, I'd like to have a compartment for the drain that houses live rock, that goes through two refugiums, and the return pumps will meet in the middle. Again, all just an idea right now, nothing concrete, so therefore, in my mind it works LOL. I need to do some research first. I plan on making the sump and putting it in the middle of the stand, so I can have equipment on either side, not only that, it will be easier to get to and clean.

Again, all ideas. I want to map it out on that program denzil used, then I'll bring it to a BAR meeting and see what you all think about it. :) Hopefully it will make more sense on paper than my writing LoL.

Oh btw, for those of you wondering: apartment has NO limit on how big my tanks are. As long as my renter's insurance is kept current, and I have the space for it, they are fine with it. Two of the office girls are excited about the idea :) Floor is also indeed, concrete slab. So, between Denzil and the apartment office, my requirements for approval have been met!!
 
Oh and just so I don't confuse anyone, when I say "smaller" umps, I am still thinking of bigger than my mag 9.5s, just not one ginormus one haha.

Also thinking of maybe doing a custom tank. It wasn't my first intention due to cost, but, I may just do that instead....
 
Id look for 1 nicer pump like the bubble blaster and vinegar bath it every 6 months or so. Just me. Two is nice as a fail safe, but 3 doesn't make sense to me. You can tee off returns and have more points of re entry if you are worried about flow, but you did say mp60(s)...so not really a concern IMO.
 
Again still looking into things, just tossing out ideas. I'm trying to put them on here so I can go back later and look LOL.

Custom tanks: who's our go to person/business? I'd like to talk to someone about tank dimensions... :D I just realized the only difference between a 180 and a 225 is 5 inches in height.. if I can make it 2.5 inches deeper, and 2.5 inches taller... I may have a bigger tank O.O haha
 
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