got ethical husbandry?

Cold water tank.

Radiolunatic said:
Here is one of the famous cold water system by Steve Weast in Oregon for your reference:
http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_coldwater.htm
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Guess you missed the post a couple up from this?

Matt_Wandell said:
Good stuff here too from Steve Weast:
http://oregonreef.com/sub_coldwater.htm
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Ditto on that GreshamH. I always laugh when I'm throwing back an "illegal" catch .I do deflate and sink them , but come on swim bladder hanging out their mouths,Seals,Lings, not to good of a chance.They would taste so good!
 
GreshamH said:
Matt_Wandell said:
GreshamH said:
Most everything is a no no here in CA. WA/OR it's fine but not here. Let me put it this way, you're not even allowed to collect zooplankton.

That first picture, nothing in it is allowed to be collected for aquaria. You can't even disturb that eel grass, or even take a single blade.
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From certain areas? When I contacted F&G about this they said you could basically keep anything in an aquarium that you could take with a fishing license.
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Well you can't take squat from MPA's of which now litter the CA coast. IN my area it's all pretty much off limits now. Ditto with where Jon lives.

Yes, you can keep any fish that is of legal size and that is listed on the CA F&G sport fishing reg's. So no little gobies, no sticklebacks, no clingfish, etc etc. 3' leopard shark, sure!

Marine Aquaria Collectors permit (available at Department license offices).
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of which is next to impossible to get so why even mention it? To get it you need a multi thousand dollar permit of which if you read the rules, you must have a vessel as well. Last I checked into this you're looking at a yearly permit budget of like $5K.

People may collect invertebrates under the authority of a sport fishing license
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meaning you can collect and keep what is only on the list of items you can hunt. Anemones are off limits as there is no limit set for them in the F&G license. They have to meet the size regulations as well. Most cool tidal stuff if a no no. So what are you left with? Crabs (but no hermits), snails, urchins, large fish and a couple other minor things. Strawberry anem's, nope, can't touch em. Starfish, nope, leave em alone.
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Gresham, I'm just posting what she wrote me. I think if John wants to do everything correctly and by the book he is better off contacting the F&G and finding out for himself than listening to either of us. :D
 
If you ask a dozen CA F&G agents you'll get a dozen opinions :lol:


Matt I know that and I wasn't disputing your fact or emails, I was merely adding additional information. CA F&G loves to quote regs but they fail to tell you critical info, like how it's impossible to get an aquaria collection permit.

My post above is spot on and direct from a top level agent. He's the guy who issued RMI their permit.

I spent hours upon hours a few years back with CA F&G trying to get the aquaria collection permit. Futile doesn't even begin to tell how hard it truly is.
 
GreshamH said:
If you ask a dozen CA F&G agents you'll get a dozen opinions :lol:
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TOTALLY know what you mean...I have the same experience with USFW when importing animals as I'm sure you know well. ;)

I just mean that John may have "best intentions" on his side if he gets something in writing saying species X, Y, and Z are legal to collect from location 1, 2, and 3 if he has license ABC.

So from what you're saying it sounds like if there isn't a catch limit for a certain species, then the limit is effectively "zero"? Am I understanding that correctly? Seems like one of those silly technicalities...I doubt the collection pressure on Corynactis or aggregating anemones from a handful of people who want to keep them in aquariums amounts to anything at all.
 
Matt_Wandell said:
GreshamH said:
If you ask a dozen CA F&G agents you'll get a dozen opinions :lol:
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TOTALLY know what you mean...I have the same experience with USFW when importing animals as I'm sure you know well. ;)

I just mean that John may have "best intentions" on his side if he gets something in writing saying species X, Y, and Z are legal to collect from location 1, 2, and 3 if he has license ABC.

So from what you're saying it sounds like if there isn't a catch limit for a certain species, then the limit is effectively "zero"? Am I understanding that correctly? Seems like one of those silly technicalities...I doubt the collection pressure on Corynactis or aggregating anemones from a handful of people who want to keep them in aquariums amounts to anything at all.
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You got it on both accounts. If there is no catch limits then it's a "no take". A bunch of stuff off our coast is pretty suitable for aquaria and highly sustainable due to the small amount of people that would even want to do it. Corynactis are pests in many labs. I know they litter UCSC's research center "waste water" drains.
 
Matt, thanks a lot for contacting F&G and passing on the info. Even though I'm not looking to set up a temperate tank anytime soon myself, I might someday and I really appreciate your effort!
 
Jon, note that a lot of fish and inverts that live in the bay will actually do OK in a normal tank 70-76 degrees. I used to catch small leopard sharks and critters and place them right in my tank 12 years or so ago.

Just make sure the acclimation process is a bit slow. So you still need a chiller for the summer. But no need for a heater I guess :)
 
pixelpixi said:
Matt, thanks a lot for contacting F&G and passing on the info. Even though I'm not looking to set up a temperate tank anytime soon myself, I might someday and I really appreciate your effort!
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Just to be clear I as well have contacted them and still have ongoing conversations with them in respect to keeping temperate inverts & fishes. This is something I have been researching since 1990 when I started diving a lot.

The reg's make it pretty much useless to try to do it legally (can't transport fin fish, can't collect any invert not on the list, etc) with Cali's critters. Huge fines and even jail time are not something I want to get involved with :lol:
 
We used to deal with a guy we called "moonbeam" back in the ab farming days, I wanted to have a few pest around the broodstock room, he said as long as I had a fishing license I could pretty much take anything that wasn't restricted. I asked an enforcement agent years later and he said that if I did that he'd bust me, I could never get a straight answer.
 
That's a big issue with field agents :(

I go around them and talk with the people in charge of permits as they seem to be more informed.... although they can pass along just as bad of information as well. :lol:

You guys called him Moonbeam? Was he "hippy" to you guys?
 
"Moonbeam" rode his bike out to our facility from SF the first time he came out to see what we were doing and to make sure they were issuing R&D permits as well as kelp harvesting permits, the dude rolled up on a super old 12 speed with a 12 pack strapped to the back. Needless to say, we got our permits :D

The enforcement agents have always been nice to me, but very firm, the folks in the office seemed like they couldn't be bothered, that was over 10 years ago though...
 
Field agents and I seem to be on the same level so I never really get screwed with either, :) I have contacts in the office so I really only deal with them, but your right about the normal phone operators not really wanting to talk to you :lol:
 
when you get ready to harvest, give me a call I have a few good spots for juv fish. But gotta get there by boat.. 30 miles north of Bodega up the coast in the fall, shallow water 70-35'
 
Here's some of my coldwater fish :)

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SoulFish said:
when you get ready to harvest, give me a call I have a few good spots for juv fish. But gotta get there by boat.. 30 miles north of Bodega up the coast in the fall, shallow water 70-35'
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I'll take you out!
fishing091.jpg

This Ling had an 18" octopus in it's stomach!
fishing001-1.jpg

elephantrock013-1.jpg

P1010115-1.jpg
 
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