got ethical husbandry?

DBTC: Walt Disney

I will add my 2 cents. I think the DBTC program has always allowed for the chain starter to decide for themselves how selective they want their chain to be. For some rare/expensive corals it makes sense to be a little more picky when selecting recipients, especially when the chain is still young and just starting out. I have no problem with how @jhuynh has gone about selecting recipients, and I think it makes sense to be very selective for such a valuable and sensitive coral. Whereas others have started chains for simple or more common corals, they may be more open to including newer members in these chains. Of course, I would hope that any recipients at least have a tank journal, and have shown that they can successfully keep corals of similar care. Ultimately though, it is up to the owner of the frag to decide if they want to pass it on to a particular person or not.

And saying that it is not "free frags" is a little silly to me. By definition the frags in DBTC are free, with the caveat that you should abide by the rules set out in that chain. Now is it free with no strings attached? No, the idea is that you are still obligated to do your best to grow and complete the chain, and also act as a bank for the chain owner, but still the frag is obtained for free. Now it is up the the owner of the chain to decide whether or not they feel the recipient can fulfill this obligation.

I agree that unfortunately a lot of these chains do not make it very far and don't get completed. Thankfully, with Barcode, it will be easier to see a person's track record of their DBTC participation. We will be able to see, has this person completed chains, have they killed a lot of their frags, have they started any chains, have they received much more than they have given back, etc. With this information, it will become easier for the owner of the frag to make a better decision on who to pass it to that will hopefully complete this chain.
 
Vhuang168 said:
It has to do with the message.

If I told someone who is not a member he can get free Walt Disney in DBTC, they would probably sign up expecting it. But then he/she finds out its not really free 1st come 1st serve. It has strings attached and they may not even get selected.

I think there should be a distinction between DBTC and PIF. If what you want to do is spread the love, use PIF. If you want to bank your coral, use DBTC. And as a member, if you are looking for free coral with no responsibility, use PIF. If you want to take on the responsibility of taking care of a coral for someone else, then DBTC is for you. If what you want is to TRY a coral, do not use DBTC.
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The message is very clear and is spelled out in multiple sticky threads like this one:

Thread 'What is DBTC?'
https://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/what-is-dbtc.14207/

They are free corals. They don’t cost money. That’s what free means. They do have strings attached unlike PIF.

Nowhere in any of these posts have I seen anyone questioning any of this or the mission of DBTC. I just see statements like “I will never contribute to BAR DBTC”. Why? What’s the reason? No recipient has complained. I just see recipients saying they would like one and contributors throwing fits. I don’t get it

I’d like to know who is ruining DBTC for the contributors. Who is subverting the DBTC mission? Who is bringing dishonor to the house of DBTC?
 
JVU said:
I don’t understand why everyone always wants to create controversy out of nothing, intentionally misinterpreting everything they read online.
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Man it feels like there is so much of this lately. I think we have all been cooped up too long during this pandemic, and have nothing better to do. We really need to have another frag swap once it makes sense to do so, so we can get away from all of this text based communication and just talk corals :)
 
Baykes said:
Man it feels like there is so much of this lately. I think we have all been cooped up too long during this pandemic, and have nothing better to do. We really need to have another frag swap once it makes sense to do so, so we can get away from all of this text based communication and just talk corals :)
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Not sure what you or John mean.. Its kinda like saying to someone who is expressing a concern "you are too emotional " is that what you getting at? That the concerns are not valid and driven by someone sitting home alone being emotional?
 
ofzakaria said:
Not sure what you or John mean.. Its kinda like saying to someone who is expressing a concern "you are too emotional " is that what you getting at? That the concerns are not valid and driven by someone sitting home alone being emotional?
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What are the concerns? Who sees DBTC as a source of free frags without abiding by the rules?

I, for one, loathe the “hey, let’s play ball together. Never mind, I’m going home and taking the ball with me” mentality.
 
svreef said:
The message is very clear and is spelled out in multiple sticky threads like this one:

Thread 'What is DBTC?'
https://www.bareefers.org/forum/threads/what-is-dbtc.14207/

They are free corals. They don’t cost money. That’s what free means. They do have strings attached unlike PIF.

Nowhere in any of these posts have I seen anyone questioning any of this or the mission of DBTC. I just see statements like “I will never contribute to BAR DBTC”. Why? What’s the reason? No recipient has complained. I just see recipients saying they would like one and contributors throwing fits. I don’t get it

I’d like to know who is ruining DBTC for the contributors. Who is subverting the DBTC mission? Who is bringing dishonor to the house of DBTC?
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Boss, its not about someone ruining it for the contributors.
Its about a theme that is happining.
And when contributors raise the concerns they are not validated or addressed, rather borderline ridiculed..
This is not the first time this discussion occurs and end end up being ridiculed as just "drama"..
 
svreef said:
What are the concerns? Who sees DBTC as a source of free frags without abiding by the rules?

I, for one, loathe the “hey, let’s play ball together. Never mind, I’m going home and taking the ball with me” mentality.
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U see again, ridicule and calling me hysterical.
I said I will no longer add frags cause its my skin in the game. So you taking offense in this means u r not seeing my point..
Then u come and say whats wrong..thisnis wrong..
 
For the record I am willing to take this private and we can discuss with the BOD if you guys want to explore improvements or address concerns. Am not pushing "drama" I want to support a solution for a problem almost every single contributor here in BAR see..
 
ofzakaria said:
U see again, ridicule and calling me hysterical.
I said I will no longer add frags cause its my skin in the game. So you taking offense in this means u r not seeing my point..
Then u come and say whats wrong..thisnis wrong..
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Not ridiculing you or calling you anything. I’m asking what the concern is. When you contribute a frag that’s your skin in the game. So? What does that even mean? If you don’t want your frag to potentially die, don’t give it to anyone. You do that willingly and you choose the recipient. What’s the issue?

All I heard so far is that DBTC is generally being perceived incorrectly. Why? By whom? The rules are spelled out and clear. No one is questioning any of it. It’s free coral with rules. It’s free. Everyone participating makes their own decisions.
 
ofzakaria said:
Not sure what you or John mean.. Its kinda like saying to someone who is expressing a concern "you are too emotional " is that what you getting at? That the concerns are not valid and driven by someone sitting home alone being emotional?
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I cant speak for John, but being someone that has been around for awhile I can think of 4 or so threads within just the past year that have quickly escalated to becoming fairly aggressive in nature for what I feel are ultimately tied to misunderstandings, or overreactions on all parties involved. Yeah those would happen from time to time, but definitely seems to be happening more lately. I definitely think there are instances where too much is read into a post, and instead of asking for clarity, it is assumed as the worst. I feel that when there were frag swaps and other club events, the club felt more inclusive in general.

In general I think it is always best to assume best intentions, especially with text based communications that can be misconstrued.
 
svreef said:
Not ridiculing you or calling you anything. I’m asking what the concern is. When you contribute a frag that’s your skin in the game. So? What does that even mean? If you don’t want your frag to potentially die, don’t give it to anyone. You do that willingly and you choose the recipient. What’s the issue?

All I heard so far is that DBTC is generally being perceived incorrectly. Why? By whom? The rules are spelled out and clear. No one is questioning any of it. It’s free coral with rules. It’s free. Everyone participating makes their own decisions.
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Is this response your own opinion or represent the bod?
 
Baykes said:
I cant speak for John, but being someone that has been around for awhile I can think of 4 or so threads within just the past year that have quickly escalated to becoming fairly aggressive in nature for what I feel are ultimately tied to misunderstandings, or overreactions on all parties involved. Yeah those would happen from time to time, but definitely seems to be happening more lately. I definitely think there are instances where too much is read into a post, and instead of asking for clarity, it is assumed as the worst. I feel that when there were frag swaps and other club events, the club felt more inclusive in general.

In general I think it is always best to assume best intentions, especially with text based communications that can be misconstrued.
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Respect!
I get your point and appreciate it.
 
Vhuang168 said:
It has to do with the message.

If I told someone who is not a member he can get free Walt Disney in DBTC, they would probably sign up expecting it. But then he/she finds out its not really free 1st come 1st serve. It has strings attached and they may not even get selected.

I think there should be a distinction between DBTC and PIF. If what you want to do is spread the love, use PIF. If you want to bank your coral, use DBTC. And as a member, if you are looking for free coral with no responsibility, use PIF. If you want to take on the responsibility of taking care of a coral for someone else, then DBTC is for you. If what you want is to TRY a coral, do not use DBTC.
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Spot on.
Messaging and falling back to the mission statement when in doubt. Thats what enforce and imprint mission statement of programs..
 
Lots of good opinions here. I don’t personally disagree or agree with all of what anyone has said. (Except maybe @Baykes. Thanks for keeping a cool head!) but it doesn’t really matter what I think more than anyone else. So I’ll let people keep discussing this here as long as we can avoid devolving into name calling etc...
I don’t think anyone can be wrong for participating in dbtc for whatever their reasons may be as long as they follow the rules of any chains they take part in. It can be many things to many people.
the reason one person likes or dislikes it is Totally fine and up to that individual. Nobody has to agree that there is a right and a wrong way to use the program, and nobody should be telling anyone who to give their frags to. If somebody doesn’t want to give a frag to somebody else because they don’t see the program the same way that’s unfortunate (IMO) but not a big problem. Just find somebody that sees it the way you do.
Nobody has to participate. There is no one “right answer” here IMO.
If somebody openly says they haven’t tried sps before I might give them an orange digitata or purple stylophora or green slimer and see what happens, but I wouldn’t give someone a pink tip elegance or gold torch if they weren’t sure. That’s just me. Like I said different things to different folks. Sometimes it’s back up. Sometimes it sharing. Sometimes is encouraging caprice propagation. Sometimes it’s all of those. Sometimes it’s something else entirely maybe (I don’t want to assume I know all the reasons all the members have ever used it for).
my main point here I guess is nobody here is entirely right, and nobody is entirely wrong. This whole discussion can be valuable, but I want everyone to remember that this shouldn’t be like how different religions can get, where often each one thinks their way is the only right way and everyone else is doing it wrong. (Obviously just my cynical opinion here, nothing against anyone who is religious).
 
So the concern is that someone told someone else that they can get free WD through DBTC if they become a supporting member? That is a true statement. They can get free WD. They have to abide by the posted rules. The contributor has the right to give them one or not. I don’t see the problem.

I think I fired this up today but I was trying to understand the OPs frustrations since this is the second time he’s quit in a short period of time and I don’t know why. I’d like to fix it, if I can.
 
ofzakaria said:
If I know I would not ask, am not stupid.
I want to avoid playing a game here so I want to know who am I debating. A BOD or personal opinion.
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We are all just people man. No one person can speak for everyone else here. The club belongs to us all. Just because someone volunteers to be on the BOD for the benefit of everyone else here does not make their opinion automatically “correct” or unassailable or count more than anyone else’s. This is why I said my opinion doesn’t really matter here, because I’m just one person.
 
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