Reef nutrition

Dr Tims fishless cycle

Devon

Devon

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So I have cycled several tanks in my past using different methods. As I’m am setting up a new tank right now I decided to try the most ethical way. Well doesn’t seem to be working that well for me. Following the first dose of ammonia I saw that the ammonia was coming down the next day. After the second dose on day 3 the ammonia I holding steady and not going down for about a week and half. I think The cycle has stalled…
So what should I do now? Im think about doing a 25% WC but what next after that?
Any advice would be helpful!
Thanks
 
My advice on cycling is always bite the bullet and get some live rock/rubble from a friend's tank you trust.

The same discussion is going on in "Ryan's 40 breeder" tank journal
 
What ppm ammonia did you add to the tank initially and what is the amount now? The cycle can stall due to nitrite levels getting too high, usually due to too much ammonia being added initially. You could also have a dead bottle of Dr Tim's. Too much heat, cold, or time since manufacturing can kill the bacteria.

I'd offer up a piece of rock from my fuge but there's bristle worms in there :)
 
I did 4 drops per gallon as directed the first time. I was a little skeptical when it came to the second dose on day 3. So I went with a half dose(2 drops per gallon). The ammonia has been steady at 4ppm since. Nitrite is off the chart Nitrate is around 20-40 ppm.

I have a running nano that I can transfer a bit of rock from to the new tank but not much.

Should I do a 25% WC then put a rock from the nano in the tank? Or would that be counter productive?
 
I had a Dr Tim's cycle stall & dumped in BioSpira to kick it back into gear. The experience partially soured me to Dr Tim. It's documented and promoted as "just do this" but, like you, following the instructions as directed got me "stuck"
 
My initial bottle of Fritz Turbo start was from Bay Bridge LFS via 5 day amazon shipping. I suspect the bacteria were mostly dead when I added them as the bottle was room temp. I added a second, cold, bottle bought from Neptune half a week later and some live bio media from an established tank. It took 2-3 days for my ammonia to start dropping after that. My nitrites are off the chart at 2+ ppm right now. I stopped testing for nitrates as I heard the present of nitrites ruins the test.

I initially overdosed ammonia and did a midweek 50% WC before adding the second bottle of turbo start to bring ammonia down from 4ppm to 2ppm.
 
Devon said:
I did 4 drops per gallon as directed the first time. I was a little skeptical when it came to the second dose on day 3. So I went with a half dose(2 drops per gallon). The ammonia has been steady at 4ppm since. Nitrite is off the chart Nitrate is around 20-40 ppm.

I have a running nano that I can transfer a bit of rock from to the new tank but not much.

Should I do a 25% WC then put a rock from the nano in the tank? Or would that be counter productive?
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Start reading posts by Randy homes Farley and brandon429 on R2R about modern cycling. It changed how I think about cycling and using bottled bacteria. I still have a lot to learn from them.
BTW what test kit are you using to test for ammonia? API is hilariously bad and RedSea isn't much better in their opinions.

After adding some LR from your other tank, ammonia should be zeroed out in a few days.
 
phatduckk said:
I had a Dr Tim's cycle stall & dumped in BioSpira to kick it back into gear. The experience partially soured me to Dr Tim. It's documented and promoted as "just do this" but, like you, following the instructions as directed got me "stuck"
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I'm partial to Fritz's turbo start (when stored and purchased cold and fresh). I've used the FW version and the SW version with good success. I know many people like Dr. Tims too but I never plan on switching from Turbo Start.
 
Thanks for the advice!

I will add a couple rocks from the nano and test to see what happens. I plan to use the rock from the nano in the new tank anyway.
I bought the Dr Tims from saltwater.com. It could have been dead not sure. I know I didn’t over dose and the cycle did start but is stalled. I will not be using this method for cycling next time. I’m just in a holding pattern right now and in no rush. Only down side is not being able to participate in the swap. I want to get this tank transfer completed and take down the nano before I bring anymore coral home. I’ll post the results as they change hopefully for the better.
See everyone Sunday!
 
New tank picture for reference.
3A736859-F7C4-4401-8FC9-AE68F673FD1F.jpeg
 
rdriggett said:
I'm partial to Fritz's turbo start (when stored and purchased cold and fresh). I've used the FW version and the SW version with good success. I know many people like Dr. Tims too but I never plan on switching from Turbo Start.
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Ya I’ve heard it’s great but haven’t seen it at the shops I frequent. Where is it available in the bay? I think Bay Bridge aquarium has it but that’s a decent hike
 
Devon said:
Thanks for the advice!

I will add a couple rocks from the nano and test to see what happens. I plan to use the rock from the nano in the new tank anyway.
I bought the Dr Tims from saltwater.com. It could have been dead not sure. I know I didn’t over dose and the cycle did start but is stalled. I will not be using this method for cycling next time. I’m just in a holding pattern right now and in no rush. Only down side is not being able to participate in the swap. I want to get this tank transfer completed and take down the nano before I bring anymore coral home. I’ll post the results as they change hopefully for the better.
See everyone Sunday!
Click to expand...
Ok I just did some refresher reading. If your tank is producing nitrites, it is safe for livestock. Nitrites are not harmful to saltwater fish below 30-3000ppm. Try doing a 50% WC, dose the rest of the bacteria if you have any and add the LR. Your tank should be churning through ammonia in under a week. Nitrite control seems to take more like a month ish.
 
The advice with some of these products to add a lot of ammonia over a short period of time is bad advice. Trace amounts are needed, but it’s easy to add too much and inhibit the bacteria.

You want to mimic what happens normally, which is a trace amount of ammonia is present and immediately gets consumed by bacteria, which multiply quickly and are ready for the next trace amount of ammonia. In a healthy system you at most may occasionally have a barely detectable amount of ammonia or nitrite (by hobby kits), even though it is being produced 24/7.

The obvious way to achieve this is to have a vastly understocked amount of fish in the tank on day 1 of adding the bacteria, excreting trace amounts of ammonia all day to drive the process. Like 1 small fish in a 50g-100g tank or so. Can add more fish slowly as the bacterial population builds. If you don’t want to use fish, in theory the next best way is to add really trace amounts of ammonia a couple times a day. But if you stop adding ammonia once the bacteria has burned through the ammonia you added (and before you add fish), then you have the problem that those bacteria don’t have ammonia to consume anymore and can be negatively affected.
 
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rdriggett said:
Start reading posts by Randy homes Farley and brandon429 on R2R about modern cycling. It changed how I think about cycling and using bottled bacteria. I still have a lot to learn from them.
BTW what test kit are you using to test for ammonia? API is hilariously bad and RedSea isn't much better in their opinions.

After adding some LR from your other tank, ammonia should be zeroed out in a few days.
Click to expand...
Brandon429 refers the bottled bacteria to snake oil if I recollect from reading his lengthy posts a while back. He makes some great points gathered from multiple sources. I myself have never used any bottled bacteria so have no comment just relying on good live rock and NSW on starting multiple tanks the last 5 years. After 30 days I do a water change and perform the first test of parameters which pan out then add fish..Now in emergency I've had with tank leaks in such or fish that all of a sudden start munching coral or being an ass I've added fish and corals the same day in a dry tank adding live rock with no losses! but I've always had low fish count and bio loads. These tanks have been super simple with HOB, powerhead, and no skimmer. From my own experience the last 5 years I'm now a firm believer of good live rock filtration and what I guess is skip cycling using live rock. Dry rocks I did add with the existing live rock got the uglies fast so now I always have rock curing in the garage to avoid that issue now. The exception I observed was the few pieces of man made dry ceramic rock I would add did not get ugly just coralined up. Every tank I've had or have runs a bit different regardless of same water change regime and exact same water...The only constant duplicated observed results have been in using cured live rock starting out..Sorry to rabbit hole if I did
 
rdriggett said:
Are we talking about the same user? Basically every post of his that I've read is pro bottled bacteria (he calls them boosted cycles).
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Hmm maybe I mixed up his screen name I thought it was him but there was a long r2r thread on this topic bottled bacteria vs live rock on cycling and what was claimed to be in the bottles by the manufacturers...I'll try and look it up...I wasn't trying to start a debate or knocking down any products just tossing my own observations fyi..
 
PjFish said:
Hmm maybe I mixed up his screen name I thought it was him but there was a long r2r thread on this topic bottled bacteria vs live rock on cycling and what was claimed to be in the bottles by the manufacturers...I'll try and look it up...I wasn't trying to start a debate or knocking down any products just tossing my own observations fyi..
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No debate intended here! He is very pro live rock but from what I have read seems to champion bottled bacteria vs a 3 month cycle. I think he's anti a few brands of bottled bacteria except for Dr Tims and Turbo Start.
 
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