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Help Needed: Live Rock Bacteria & Nitrate question

I like Derek's this differentiated perspective on this popular product.

Also, I am unsure if the apparent main ingredient, erythromycin sulfate, is known to some, and what other longer-term negative effects this can have, on fish? Looks like there are studies on fish health when using this product, such as this, and they do not sound good: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40187523/

But it comes down to why take antibiotics in general if you do not have to (e.g., euphyllias about to die otherwise).

My concerns with any of these products is that we often ignore the underlying reasons and fix the symptoms, while it is much more satisfying to fix the root cause, as it creates independence from these quick fix products.
 
Alexander1312 said:
I like Derek's this differentiated perspective on this popular product.

Also, I am unsure if the apparent main ingredient, erythromycin sulfate, is known to some, and what other longer-term negative effects this can have, on fish? Looks like there are studies on fish health when using this product, such as this, and they do not sound good: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40187523/

But it comes down to why take antibiotics in general if you do not have to (e.g., euphyllias about to die otherwise).

My concerns with any of these products is that we often ignore the underlying reasons and fix the symptoms, while it is much more satisfying to fix the root cause, as it creates independence from these quick fix products.
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Great - so now we just need to understand the root cause of Cyano ;) :p
 
Fixing the route cause of anything in this hobby is hard because we don't know enough to know if we truly are fixing something from the root. Is "low flow and certain trace elements too low" truly the root or a different band-aid? I can't even pretend to know.
 
Patio said:
Fixing the route cause of anything in this hobby is hard because we don't know enough to know if we truly are fixing something from the root. Is "low flow and certain trace elements too low" truly the root or a different band-aid? I can't even pretend to know.
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I do not agree with this sentiment for a number of reasons. The water matters is one of them.

Also, we can go into some rethorical debate of what the root cause truly is, I.e., we are keeping a super dirty glass box with tons of fish and keep adding food which rots everywhere and believe we can have pristine looking tank that looks like (or used to be) the ocean.

But the answer should not be to automatically justify adding in antiobiotics whenever there is a problem that does not disappear quickly.
 
Patio said:
I am not trying to persuade or impress, just chatting.
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I am trying to persuade, though haha. No, all good :).

I am just trying to make a point that cyano, or even worse, dinos, have a systematic way to address vs the brute force methods which are often recommended based on past experience from times when this knowledge was not available. And I do feel there is a strong distinction to what I would consider band aids vs addressing underlying reasons.
 
Alexander1312 said:
How do you know?
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Because I have high flow and plenty of those trace elements.

A better question is how do YOU know that it IS the root cause? With the enormous complexity in these tanks - do we really think "low flow and a couple low trace elements" is sincerely the true root cause of something that exists in ALL tanks and shows up in just about every system out there, regardless of parameters?

I think like @Patio says the reality is probably far, far more nuanced and complex than this...hence my original joke. Nobody really knows the "true root cause" or Cyano wouldn't be such a common problem across such a broad spectrum of tanks and individuals and hundreds(thousands?) of species of Cyano bactera.
 
derek_SR said:
Because I have high flow and plenty of those trace elements.

A better question is how do YOU know that it IS the root cause? With the enormous complexity in these tanks - do we really think "low flow and a couple low trace elements" is sincerely the true root cause of something that exists in ALL tanks and shows up in just about every system out there, regardless of parameters?

I think like @Patio says the reality is probably far, far more nuanced and complex than this...hence my original joke. Nobody really knows the "true root cause" or Cyano wouldn't be such a common problem across such a broad spectrum of tanks and individuals and thousands(?) of species of Cyano bactera.
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The root cause is certainly not that we are missing antiobiotics in our tanks :).

And for cyano, yes, I think it is pretty simple. Other topics could be more complex.
 
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