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ICP results (and questions)

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L/B Block

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So overall results were pretty good but some serious deficiencies with iodine, zinc, barium, maganes.

Not sure if I should be overly concerned. Also I am not sure about their suggested dosing—is this once a day or ongoing?

Is there a trace elements solution I should use to cover all of this.

Little surprised as I do pretty consistent water changes (water from AC).

Any input appreciated.
 

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Iodine is pretty easy to add with Lugol's and something that I know reefers have dosed for decades without ill effect. The others can be hard to control or have negligible benefit from what I've read about. Manganese is one that I've always been deficient in, but would like to hear about from other people because it is used by a lot of pathways and enzymes. Macroalgae consumes a ton too.

But, most ICP methods have a lower limit of detection very close to NSW levels of Mn (0.17ug/L vs. a LLD of 0.04 ug/L for ATI's method). So it's hard to control/supplement.

If the tank looks fine, then you don't need to go all mad scientist.
 
Darkxerox said:
Iodine is pretty easy to add with Lugol's and something that I know reefers have dosed for decades without ill effect. The others can be hard to control or have negligible benefit from what I've read about. Manganese is one that I've always been deficient in, but would like to hear about from other people because it is used by a lot of pathways and enzymes. Macroalgae consumes a ton too.

But, most ICP methods have a lower limit of detection very close to NSW levels of Mn (0.17ug/L vs. a LLD of 0.04 ug/L for ATI's method). So it's hard to control/supplement.

If the tank looks fine, then you don't need to go all mad scientist.
Click to expand...
Thanks @Darkxerox -on the whole the tank looks good. Corals seem happy. But I def lost a few crabs -esp one pitho that was especially effective at bubble algae control-most likely due to iodine deficiency (affects molting is my understanding) -although the fire shrimp are ok.

I may switch from TM’s carbo calcium to all for reef that contains all the elements listed in the ICP report. Carbo calcium is essentially the same w/o the trace elements-which has worked out well.

I know JVU had an issue with PH suppression but everything else online (mainly reef chemistry by RFH) does not indicate this is an ongoing issue. Easy enough to switch out the dosing solutions. If I see a noticeable effect I can either switch back or add some soda ash in to give that PH a kick in the pants!!
 
Just come get the captive8 isolate my trace elements and dose them daily. Problem fixed. No need to switch to all for reef. Not trying to steer you in a different direction, I am just not a fan of all for reef. If you only have one tank to deal with, continue dosing 2 part and kalk, and add traces, you can even set them on a doser if you like. I just don’t like the idea of one bottle covering everything, because everything gets consumed differently, so I like to dose according to consumption of elements with them being minor or major
 
Thanks for the input @under_water_ninja. I will take a look at the recommendation.

I do agree with you that elements do get consumed at different rates per tank. I am only considering all for reef as I have their current dose locked in for carbo calcium -which is the same sans trace elements. But I have had pretty good success with TM so far so willing to give it chance first. If it doesn’t succeed-well on to plan B.

Be in later this week to pick up a few things.
 
It seems simple but isn’t
It doesn’t work the same way as 2-3 part
It forces you to be carbon dosing which I’m not a huge fan of tieing to your Alk ca mg consumption
 
Coral reefer said:
It seems simple but isn’t
It doesn’t work the same way as 2-3 part
It forces you to be carbon dosing which I’m not a huge fan of tieing to your Alk ca mg consumption
Click to expand...
Whaaa? I have not seen anything related to carbon dosing. I believe you-just nothing in the documentation that I have this far-
 
RE carbon dosing, it's not that it forces you to do separate carbon dosing, it's that AFR acts as carbon dosing because of the way the chemical release works.

Fwiw I've found AFR works well for me. It's very easy to dose, and if you have a small tank it's not really that expensive if you buy the powder and mix it yourself. It's definitely not cheaper than 2part or alk or ..., but it's not like it's a huge expense relative to running lights and heaters and ...

It also has the benefit of being more oopz protected, in that if you dump too much in it'll not have quite as immediate an effect as other dosing options. That's also a negative, and why it'd be useless if you wanted to use it with an alk controller, but that's a totally different topic.
 
L/B Block said:
Whaaa? I have not seen anything related to carbon dosing. I believe you-just nothing in the documentation that I have this far-
Click to expand...
Yep it's calcium formate which gets metabolized by bacteria and releases Ca and carbonate. That's also likely why TM adds back TE's and potentially anything else being indirectly consumed . So you could be altering the ratios of bacteria in your tank and will probably see nitrate/phosphate consumption as well when the bacteria are eaten by other predators or skimmed out. So if you're close to bottoming out for N and P, you might want to consider increasing feeding.

The CarboCalcium product works in the same way and is the main ingredient of AFR, but doesn't contain TEs, Strontium, Mag, etc.
 
Darkxerox said:
Yep it's calcium formate which gets metabolized by bacteria and releases Ca and carbonate. That's also likely why TM adds back TE's and potentially anything else being indirectly consumed . So you could be altering the ratios of bacteria in your tank and will probably see nitrate/phosphate consumption as well when the bacteria are eaten by other predators or skimmed out. So if you're close to bottoming out for N and P, you might want to consider increasing feeding.

The CarboCalcium product works in the same way and is the main ingredient of AFR, but doesn't contain TEs, Strontium, Mag, etc.
Click to expand...
Right now I am pretty far from bottoming out on phosphates-although I’ll keep track of nitrates. That is good to know though. Thank you. Their carbo calcium does not have the same impact on N & P though. At least for me -been using for months. Only after getting my refuge back in operation and the use of
TM amino acids did I see a reduction in both and a ratio of 10:1 back in place. If AFR really does act in reducing N & P then I’ll have to stop that. Or feed more.
 
richiev said:
RE carbon dosing, it's not that it forces you to do separate carbon dosing, it's that AFR acts as carbon dosing because of the way the chemical release works.

Fwiw I've found AFR works well for me. It's very easy to dose, and if you have a small tank it's not really that expensive if you buy the powder and mix it yourself. It's definitely not cheaper than 2part or alk or ..., but it's not like it's a huge expense relative to running lights and heaters and ...

It also has the benefit of being more oopz protected, in that if you dump too much in it'll not have quite as immediate an effect as other dosing options. That's also a negative, and why it'd be useless if you wanted to use it with an alk controller, but that's a totally different topic.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input @richiev - one reason I like the carbo calcium is that it is less prone to those ooops issues -I don’t need to use apex to set the levels -as it is generally fairly stable. It’s good to know about the carbon dosing impact though.
 
I mean you shouldn't see much of a difference in consumption by switching products since the primary ingredient is the same. I remember Lou Ekus from TM said that an increase in growth would cause a drop in N and P though so just monitor consumption rates.
 
Darkxerox said:
I mean you shouldn't see much of a difference in consumption by switching products since the primary ingredient is the same. I remember Lou Ekus from TM said that an increase in growth would cause a drop in N and P though so just monitor consumption rates.
Click to expand...
Duly noted. Thank you.
 
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