Kessil

kinetic Reefer 170

rygh said:
Those numbers sound a lot like when I had a very strong algae scrubber.
Corals were hungry and not happy, and I had occasional Cyano outbreaks.

I would say increasing PO4 without NO3 is a really bad thing. You will have a big Cyano issue.
That imbalance allows Cyano to out compete normal Algae, and nothing eats Cyano.

Are you really sure you have a Dino issue and not a Cyano issue?

My opinion:
Get feeding back to normal. Meaning fish + Coral are happy, but not much more.
Skim as normal.
Add NO3 directly until NO3 heads up a bit, and PO4 heads down.
Manually clean Dino/Cyano/etc.
Get a good herbivore.
And then PATIENCE. Let the tank sort itself out.
Click to expand...

Hey Mark,

Good insight, thank you! I'm pretty sure I have a dino problem, but of course I could be wrong. I've had cyano in my previous tanks, and this looks nothing like it. It looks exactly like dinos do in all the photos and videos I've seen. I haven't gotten a microscope to look at them, so that could be my next move (just don't want to invest in a microscope that I only use once or twice). I've also had hair algae, and this isn't it.

I also tried treating the tank with chemi-clean (I had it on hand) and nothing changed at all (I went the length of removing carbon, turning off uv, etc). Probably not a great idea to just treat without knowing for sure.

I'm trying to avoid needing to dose NO3 directly, but it seems like I've tried most things and it's not budging. I'll probably pickup NO3 and PO4 things to dose, as I've heard once NO3 starts coming around, PO4 will drop fast since algae will start consuming both quickly.
 
I am curious on why you would raise PO4. ??

Sure, corals need some phosphates, but that is hard to get below that level, and hard to measure at that level.
Normal reef is < 5 ppb I think.
From what I have read, a very low PO4 benefits coral, because they can get some phosphates from food particles,
where algae/bacteria cannot, and thus they compete better.
 
rygh said:
I am curious on why you would raise PO4. ??

Sure, corals need some phosphates, but that is hard to get below that level, and hard to measure at that level.
Normal reef is < 5 ppb I think.
From what I have read, a very low PO4 benefits coral, because they can get some phosphates from food particles,
where algae/bacteria cannot, and thus they compete better.
Click to expand...

Mostly from reading through this thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

I gather I need PO4 and NO3 to be higher. I didn't necessarily want PO4 to be at 24ppb, but I've been trying to overfeed etc. to get both PO4 and NO3 up so that algae can actually start growing and outcompete the dinos. I just have a few tiny nubs of SPS, so they aren't going to do much in using it. So my current struggle is NO3 levels.

I've noticed a lot more film algae growing on my glass than before, and my rocks are looking greener! Unfortunately the dinos are still around.

I ordered some food grade Sodium Nitrate and Trisodium Phosphate, and will be dosing that next week when it arrives. Once I get in a consistent amount of no3/po4 to dose, I'll probably get another Neptune DOS and keep everything stable.
 
I went to clean off my glass (good amount of film algae now with the PO4 being so high), and I guess I spooked my dottybacks, because a HUGE ball of eggs just floated up out from under the rocks and STRAIGHT into my magnifica's mouth.

It spooked me. I was like, OMG WTF is that. And it floated directly and landed on the mouth of the magnifica. The magnifica quickly consumed it. I didn't get a photo since the lights are pretty low right now and the glass was still full of algae. Crazy. So I guess my efforts with keeping two orchid dottybacks worked and they successfully paired up. I bet with all the extra food, it was easy to make babies (or eggs).

Anyway, anyone (@Kim Pattison maybe?) want a ball of eggs if I can catch them next time?
 
If you want to go the diy route to increase nitrate, you can use the tree stump removal that Home Depot sells. I can’t find the link, but it has been discussed over at reef 2 reef.
 
Finally dosed 2.5ppm of nitrate into the tank using food grade sodium nitrate! My phosphates are climbing really fast but I'm happy where it is currently.

PO4: 0.2ppm
NO3: 2.5ppm

I'll test again in 24 hours to see how much NO3 it consumed. I'm guessing as soon as algae growth kicks in, my PO4 will also drop. I just ordered another Neptune DOS, so waiting for that to come and then I'll be able to dose throughout the day. I'll give it a week of steady dosing before I automate. I'll also need to get some chaeto to outcompete algae after dinos are gone. It'll be quite the balancing act. I hope chaeto growth and dosing will be fairly easy to manage.

Any suggestions on target NO3 and PO4? I'm thinking of keeping it at these currently levels.
 
How is your dino issue looking now anyway? You’ve given tons of interesting details of what you are doing to raise your nutrient levels but not as much about the actual issue you are addressing. They often go away on their own (or more accurately, for reasons we don’t really understand).


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Dinos are getting worse. It started off with just a little, and now I'm using a baster to blast them off my SPS twice a day. There's a thick 1/2" mat of it on my rocks and snails. I keep removing manually by vacuuming it up, but it just grows back after 24 hours.

It has no competition. Though I've been finding more regular green film algae! I'm hoping bumping up NO3 will help that take off. Chaeto is incoming soon to take over the nutrient export / nutrient competition.
 
Today:
Nitrates: 0
Phosphates: 0.09ppm

I'm dosing 2.5ppm of nitrates daily (I test about 2 hours after hand dosing). PO4 keeps dropping unless I dose amino acids, but will reliably stay up.

My dinos are getting worse every day. The mat is so thick. It's now a bit more than 1/2" thick on the rocks and sand. I can see a ton in my overflow. I'm pretty sure the dinos are feeding off of the extra NO3 and PO4, but algae hasn't outcompeted it yet.

I ordered a small ball of Chaeto from AlgaeBarn (thanks @ashburn2k for letting my piggy back off your order) that'll be here at some point. I'm thinking if I can keep PO4 and NO3 up high enough to grow the chaeto, it should outcompete the dinos.

I'll have my second DOS pump coming. It'll basically dose amino acids (Like AcroPower, which is fairly stable) (to keep PO4 up) and NO3.
 
How easy is it to manually remove?

What I did with Cyano outbreak:

For Rock, take a normal siphon tube, then stick a small sharpened metal tube in the very end.
That allowed me to scrape and siphon the rock.

For the sand, I siphoned like crazy, including a lot of the sand.
But I kept the sand, washed it a lot (hosed with tap water) and put it back.


Obviously I also went through a lot of salt water, but big water changes are a good thing with this sort of problem.
 
I agree, aggressive manual removal will be an important part of your plan to let other algae take it’s place. The new algae won’t be able to thrive if all the surfaces are already covered.

I know it is super annoying to spend a lot of time manually removing only to have it come back quickly.


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