Lighting upgrade question
- Thread starter Vento
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phishphood
Guest
I'm a bit confused....4x130W? Are you sure it's not 8x65W? Assuming it is 8 bulbs of 65W each, you can probably keep the easier SPS species. Most monti's and a few other if I'm not mistaken. How deep is the tank. For that matter, how big is the tank overall?
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
Go halides if you want to keep SPS, you'll be happier you did in the long run.
(had to edit because it read like garbage!)
(had to edit because it read like garbage!)
Vento
Guest
I hear what are saying sfsu, but the problem I am going to have is heat. I have a 90gal tank with a motorcycle in living room of my condo. I am in major bind for space and literally have no room for a chiller. The tank shares the wall with a sofa. So I was thinking this will provide me enough light to have some SPS while not making to much heat. Hopefully I can cash in on these lower home prices this year. And upgrade in home size, which will allow me to also upgrade my lighting.
sfsuphysics
Supporting Member
My advice then, go with T5s, don't both with PC bulbs, T5s with reflectors can be quite impressive.
Dyngoe
Guest
I'll say exactly what everyone else has said, but more directly:
Don't even open the box. Just sell the light as soon as it arrives and get T5s. 4x130 might sound good, but there's a lot more to it than numbers. For example, my uncles tractor has 480HP; does that mean it can out race a WRX? But back to point here's what is wrong with your light:
1. Inefficient. You can get more light from a 6x54W T5 setup and save nearly 200W of power. This adds up over the month, trust me and my $300+ electrical bill.
2. It uses "rare" bulbs. 130W bulbs are so new there aren't many options available and they are not easy to find. You can get T5s anywhere in the bay if one blows out on you.
3. Ongoing cost. The 130W PC bulbs run ~$50 online. 54W T5s run ~$20 online. Let's assume you replace your bulbs once a year. Here's the math:
PC - $150 initial (I assume bulbs included, but that would be amazing) + $200 in 12 months = $350 one year from now
T5 - $400 initial (WITH your choice of 6 Bulbs) + $120 in 12 months = $520 one year from now
So, in 12 months you will have spent an extra ~$14/month on the T5s
BUT, here's the rub...you will spend at LEAST $20 running the extra 200W of PC lights in a month.
So, you end up losing money in just 12 months and have worse lights for your tank.
Look, I understand budgets, but if you try to save too much you'll just end up spending more. Sounds silly, but it's true. Eventually you will get rid of the PC lights and I'll bet it will be soon.
BTW, I didn't even mention the fact that 200W of light will add more heat. But, I assume you know that.
Don't even open the box. Just sell the light as soon as it arrives and get T5s. 4x130 might sound good, but there's a lot more to it than numbers. For example, my uncles tractor has 480HP; does that mean it can out race a WRX? But back to point here's what is wrong with your light:
1. Inefficient. You can get more light from a 6x54W T5 setup and save nearly 200W of power. This adds up over the month, trust me and my $300+ electrical bill.
2. It uses "rare" bulbs. 130W bulbs are so new there aren't many options available and they are not easy to find. You can get T5s anywhere in the bay if one blows out on you.
3. Ongoing cost. The 130W PC bulbs run ~$50 online. 54W T5s run ~$20 online. Let's assume you replace your bulbs once a year. Here's the math:
PC - $150 initial (I assume bulbs included, but that would be amazing) + $200 in 12 months = $350 one year from now
T5 - $400 initial (WITH your choice of 6 Bulbs) + $120 in 12 months = $520 one year from now
So, in 12 months you will have spent an extra ~$14/month on the T5s
BUT, here's the rub...you will spend at LEAST $20 running the extra 200W of PC lights in a month.
So, you end up losing money in just 12 months and have worse lights for your tank.
Look, I understand budgets, but if you try to save too much you'll just end up spending more. Sounds silly, but it's true. Eventually you will get rid of the PC lights and I'll bet it will be soon.
BTW, I didn't even mention the fact that 200W of light will add more heat. But, I assume you know that.
jeepboy_90
Guest
Dyngoe hit the nail on the head. Dont waste your money. T5 is the way to go. I had PC's and they are like a candle compaired to a bonfire. I went from 4x65 PC to 4x54 T5 and the light diffirence is crazy.
Roc
Guest
[quote author=patchin link=topic=5856.msg73708#msg73708 date=1231610426]
Matt,
What good t5s can you get for $400? Are you glad you when with MH, assuming you did?
[/quote]
Not a great light but diffently a goood lite, nova pro extreme 6 bulb, it has indivual reflectors and I know ppl who are gettting great results
Matt,
What good t5s can you get for $400? Are you glad you when with MH, assuming you did?
[/quote]
Not a great light but diffently a goood lite, nova pro extreme 6 bulb, it has indivual reflectors and I know ppl who are gettting great results
pixelpixi
Guest
I have to dissent. I think the common beliefs that PCs necessarily produce less light than T5s and that T5s are cooler than halides are not well supported by evidence.
PCs are often a great choice when space is tight, since they pack a lot of bulb in a small area. They may be a little less efficient than T5s or VHOs because of light blocked and reabsorbed by the bulb itself, but I don't think it's a huge percentage. I ran a 96w PC bulb over a 20 gallon and it was great. It was probably the most amount of light I could have put over that tank since the hood configuration didn't allow for a metal halide bulb and reflector. I kept a crocea clam in that tank and it did just fine.
Matt's argument about the cost of electricity assumes that 324 watts of T5 produces as much light as 520 watts of PC. I don't believe that T5s are that much more efficient. That said, the argument about the cost and selection of bulbs is totally valid.
Similarly on the other side, Halides are more efficient than T5s, not less. That means that for a given wattage a halide bulb will produce more light and less heat. The common belief that T5s are "cooler" is because the heat is spread out over a larger area and because a T5 set up is often at a lower wattage than a halide setup.
In fact, I think wattage is what a lot of this comes down to. Because PCs are usually available in such low wattages and halides available in such high wattages, they're regarded as dim and hot respectively. However, the wattage completely determines the amount of heat produced (either directly of after absorption of light) and the technologies have different efficiencies but not wildly so.
So to answer your question, I think the 4x130 fixture is enough to keep SPS, but it doesn't matter because nobody will share SPS frags with someone who says they have PC lights. ;-)
PCs are often a great choice when space is tight, since they pack a lot of bulb in a small area. They may be a little less efficient than T5s or VHOs because of light blocked and reabsorbed by the bulb itself, but I don't think it's a huge percentage. I ran a 96w PC bulb over a 20 gallon and it was great. It was probably the most amount of light I could have put over that tank since the hood configuration didn't allow for a metal halide bulb and reflector. I kept a crocea clam in that tank and it did just fine.
Matt's argument about the cost of electricity assumes that 324 watts of T5 produces as much light as 520 watts of PC. I don't believe that T5s are that much more efficient. That said, the argument about the cost and selection of bulbs is totally valid.
Similarly on the other side, Halides are more efficient than T5s, not less. That means that for a given wattage a halide bulb will produce more light and less heat. The common belief that T5s are "cooler" is because the heat is spread out over a larger area and because a T5 set up is often at a lower wattage than a halide setup.
In fact, I think wattage is what a lot of this comes down to. Because PCs are usually available in such low wattages and halides available in such high wattages, they're regarded as dim and hot respectively. However, the wattage completely determines the amount of heat produced (either directly of after absorption of light) and the technologies have different efficiencies but not wildly so.
So to answer your question, I think the 4x130 fixture is enough to keep SPS, but it doesn't matter because nobody will share SPS frags with someone who says they have PC lights. ;-)
iani
Supporting Member
Erin T5s are much more efficient than PCs. A friend of mine had 2x65 PC over the same tank that I had 4x24 T5HO. My tank looked twice as bright. I started out using PCs when I was doing planted tanks. I used PCs for at least a year before switching to T5s. I will never go back to PCs, the difference was that big. The bigger advantage to T5s other than the efficiency is that the bulb selection available for T5s are much better. All bulbs are not created equal. High par bulbs on T5s are unmatched by PCs.
Halides are actually less efficient than T5s. You get less par per watt on halides than T5s. There are numerous topics on the matter on the net. T5s are the most efficient bulb out of anything readily available.
I can attest that my t5 fixture puts out less heat than my MH/T5 combo. My T5 fixture is 3 inches off the tank (12x54w), my MH/T5 combo is ~12 inches off the tank(250x2 MH, 4x39 T5). Even with the vast height difference I still get a greater temperature increase with my MH/T5 fixture than my T5 fixture.
Halides are actually less efficient than T5s. You get less par per watt on halides than T5s. There are numerous topics on the matter on the net. T5s are the most efficient bulb out of anything readily available.
I can attest that my t5 fixture puts out less heat than my MH/T5 combo. My T5 fixture is 3 inches off the tank (12x54w), my MH/T5 combo is ~12 inches off the tank(250x2 MH, 4x39 T5). Even with the vast height difference I still get a greater temperature increase with my MH/T5 fixture than my T5 fixture.
iani
Supporting Member
[quote author=patchin link=topic=5856.msg73708#msg73708 date=1231610426]
Matt,
What good t5s can you get for $400? Are you glad you when with MH, assuming you did?
[/quote]
There is also always the tek light. People always knock it b/c of its lack of cooling, however for me it was more than enough light.
Matt,
What good t5s can you get for $400? Are you glad you when with MH, assuming you did?
[/quote]
There is also always the tek light. People always knock it b/c of its lack of cooling, however for me it was more than enough light.
itsacrispy
Guest
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but my 10K PC just died, so now I only have an actinic going 
. Can anyone recommend a good T5 retrofit set up? I'm so used to getting PC lights from AHSupply that I don't know where to begin w/ T5's.
Thanks all,
Mike
. Can anyone recommend a good T5 retrofit set up? I'm so used to getting PC lights from AHSupply that I don't know where to begin w/ T5's.Thanks all,
Mike