Jestersix

Lowering the energy bill: Heat the room or the tank

An electric space heater does not give off CO2. People do!
What is happening is that you are closing up all the windows, and the CO2 you generate is getting stuck in the house.

One thing that really helped me on PH was putting an air-stone in the sump, where the input is from the outside or garage,
not from the main house.

I used a kill-a-watt measuring tool and in the winter, it was definitely almost all heaters.
I have an insulated acrylic tank already, so hard to improve that.
There are some fun solar heater ideas, but the usual fix is a gas heater or electric heat pump.

Screen Shot 2021-11-19 at 10.39.29 AM.png
 
I love the data...but hate seeing that big number at the bottom knowing full well I run likely more than that in wattage, especially when the cooling fan is cranking away.
 
rygh said:
An electric space heater does not give off CO2. People do!
What is happening is that you are closing up all the windows, and the CO2 you generate is getting stuck in the house.

One thing that really helped me on PH was putting an air-stone in the sump, where the input is from the outside or garage,
not from the main house.

I used a kill-a-watt measuring tool and in the winter, it was definitely almost all heaters.
I have an insulated acrylic tank already, so hard to improve that.
There are some fun solar heater ideas, but the usual fix is a gas heater or electric heat pump.

View attachment 33378
Click to expand...
My garage is detached and the drop happened after the heater was plugged in and no one present in the space during the evening.

I agree I was skeptical, but something increased the CO2 that lead to a ph drop and it wasn’t from a change in my routine outside of that heater. There is nothing in the garage to close up and I haven’t sealed the door anymore than before I put the heater in it.

So the problem I have is that I could run a 1500 watt heater to heat the small 200 sq Ft garage. Or run two separate systems in that space (frag and DT) for close to 1700 watts. Those systems would never be connected and there will be an additional load when ever the QT tank is running.

Is it smarter to heat the space or the tanks individually and from most the replies it seems keep heating the tanks even though it’s using about 10 kilowatts already and the big DT doesn’t even have water in it yet.

Average daily use is 40 kilowatts. San Jose survey says average use is ~13kilwatts per day per random internet search. Apex says I’m using 7-9 kilowatts just to heat the frag tank.

I am not sure if there is insulation behind the drywall, but the garage is all drywall. I might peel back a piece to just double check.
 
I had this problem when I had my sump under my house in the crawlspace. I insulated everything with foam which lowered my bill from 600 to maybe 400 during the winter. I was going to do a radiant heat system with Al-Pex coiled in the sump, but ended up breaking down the tank instead. If I were to do it now I would just add another zone to my radiant heat system that heats my floors.
 
iani said:
I had this problem when I had my sump under my house in the crawlspace. I insulated everything with foam which lowered my bill from 600 to maybe 400 during the winter. I was going to do a radiant heat system with Al-Pex coiled in the sump, but ended up breaking down the tank instead. If I were to do it now I would just add another zone to my radiant heat system that heats my floors.
Click to expand...
image.jpg

I love that idea but I don’t have any easy/cheap way to connect the house and garage heating wise.
 
Blaise006 said:
My garage is detached and the drop happened after the heater was plugged in and no one present in the space during the evening.

I agree I was skeptical, but something increased the CO2 that lead to a ph drop and it wasn’t from a change in my routine outside of that heater. There is nothing in the garage to close up and I haven’t sealed the door anymore than before I put the heater in it.

So the problem I have is that I could run a 1500 watt heater to heat the small 200 sq Ft garage. Or run two separate systems in that space (frag and DT) for close to 1700 watts. Those systems would never be connected and there will be an additional load when ever the QT tank is running.

Is it smarter to heat the space or the tanks individually and from most the replies it seems keep heating the tanks even though it’s using about 10 kilowatts already and the big DT doesn’t even have water in it yet.

Average daily use is 40 kilowatts. San Jose survey says average use is ~13kilwatts per day per random internet search. Apex says I’m using 7-9 kilowatts just to heat the frag tank.

I am not sure if there is insulation behind the drywall, but the garage is all drywall. I might peel back a piece to just double check.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, you saw a pH drop that was definitely more than the normal big pH drop we all get in our tanks at night, right? I’ve been having a pH swing of about 0.4 from about 7.8-8.2, which is more than I’d like but typical for me lately. Hope this isn’t too obvious but just wanted to make sure you weren’t just seeing the normal pH drop.

1637353122660.png
 
JVU said:
Just to be clear, you saw a pH drop that was definitely more than the normal big pH drop we all get in our tanks at night, right? I’ve been having a pH swing of about 0.4 from about 7.8-8.2, which is more than I’d like but typical for me lately. Hope this isn’t too obvious but just wanted to make sure you weren’t just seeing the normal pH drop.

View attachment 33380
Click to expand...
Totally understand. I’m talking a .26 drop in just the 2 hours after I turned the space heater on. Monitored all through APEX.

My swing the past three weeks has been roughly 7.99 to 8.15. Once I turned it on I dropped from 8.06 to 7.80, which is bigger than my daily swing in just a couple hours. So I turned it off before going to bed.
 
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Generating CO2 requires a chemical reaction. There is no chemical reaction in an electric heater.
So physics says it is impossible.
You believe the physics of CO2 affecting PH, so no being skeptical on other basic physics. :)

It is normal for PH to drop during the night.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php
If the overall CO2 level is lower, even if it just due to people during the day, then your PH will drop even lower at night, despite nobody being present.
 
Blaise006 said:
Totally understand. I’m talking a .26 drop in just the 2 hours after I turned the space heater on. Monitored all through APEX.

My swing the past three weeks has been roughly 7.99 to 8.15. Once I turned it on I dropped from 8.06 to 7.80, which is bigger than my daily swing in just a couple hours. So I turned it off before going to bed.
Click to expand...

Is the space heater plugged into the same circuit as the APEX? Just curious if this could be interference rather then an actual physical event.
 
rygh said:
Generating CO2 requires a chemical reaction. There is no chemical reaction in an electric heater.
So physics says it is impossible.
You believe the physics of CO2 affecting PH, so no being skeptical on other basic physics. :)

It is normal for PH to drop during the night.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php
If the overall CO2 level is lower, even if it just due to people during the day, then your PH will drop even lower at night, despite nobody being present.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t being skeptical that physics wasn’t working in one scenario and not the other. I was being skeptical that the coils could of had any number of substances on them that could have burned and caused a release of CO2.

Since the heater has been off there have been no issues. I did my best to eliminate sources and variables. Maybe I’ll try plugging it in again while I’m home this weekend. After unplugging it PH stabilized. I don’t have a good explanation for the connection.

I have a very good understanding of PH and it’s swings through out the day. I want to reiterate this was not the result of that.

It’s very possible it was something coincidental like maybe a fire near by(I’m stretching for explanation here), but without knowing that I attributed the change to the only variable that would have lead to the swing that is atypical for my ph readings and routine.
 
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BAYMAC said:
Alright, since no one else is asking....

what do you keep locked up under that metal door? Please tell me its more then just utilities....
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Haha keep in mind we just moved in last month.

It was a very heavy concrete slab on hinges until recently that @Srt4eric almost lost all his toes to when he dropped it shut and almost didn’t get out of the way.

Right now, it’s stairs to the water heater.
 
Blaise006 said:
Haha keep in mind we just moved in last month.

It was a very heavy concrete slab on hinges until recently that @Srt4eric almost lost all his toes to when he dropped it shut and almost didn’t get out of the way.

Right now, it’s stairs to the water heater.
Click to expand...
Gas water heater? Does it vent near the area of CO2 concern?
Could be a leak or poorly designed vent system.
 
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