phishphood
Guest
So I'm going to do my first FOWLR style tank. Will regular fluorescent lighting be enough for mushrooms, xenia and a few other softies? It'll be 2 or 3x24" lights over a 20g long tank.
NO lighting enough for mushrooms and other softies?
- Thread starter phishphood
- Start date
Lyn
Guest
Dyngoe,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think you could keep med. light (let alone high light) corals under regular T-12s. If that is the case, I'm switching- they are so much cheaper.
If he had High Output T-12s, then that would be a different story.
I agree with Dyngoe in that you may want to go with bulbs that cover the entire length of the tank (30 inches in your case). Why not get compact flourescents or T-5s? (People keep SPS's under enough T-5s.) If you are going to keep a few polyps and softies (there are many kinds), you will find those lights will give you more flexibility in choosing corals. If you join BAR (and I think you should), you will want that flexibility, I promise. Softies also may require higher light depending on the species.
Anyway, I'm glad you posted Phishphood. The corals I promised you require up to med/high lighting. The Green Sarcophyton is pickier than the Gr. Star polyps. I have it under 4.6 watts per gallon half way up the tank, under the lights. (130 watts PC over 28 gallon tank - double what you are planning on having) Also, it will require much more stable conditions. If you haven't started your tank, or have barely started, you should not place sensitive corals in your tank just yet. I think the minimum for stabilization is about 4 months (should show beginning coraline algae growth), and then you can add the easiest/hardiest corals. (Mushrooms, gr. star polyps, anthelia) Xenia can be picky, I've heard. They are prone to melting if conditions are not right. Well, any coral might melt if conditions are not right. I would wait 6-8 months before you put the Sarcophyton in. This green Sarcophyton is pickier than my other Sarcophyton. It will retract and not come out if it does not like the water conditions. Water must be stable, and you must supplement with Iodine and vitamins. Also, your current lighting plan will not support this coral. I will hold it for you until it does, or give you lower light corals instead. Let me know what lighting scheme you go with, and I can adjust the corals accordingly. I do have a low light tank that I can pull from. (But even this low light tank uses PCs)
I highly suggest you do alot of reading on the corals you want to keep; their lighting, water conditions, supplementation needs, and their habits (some are more aggressive than others). It will save you alot of time, money, and unnecessary loss.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think you could keep med. light (let alone high light) corals under regular T-12s. If that is the case, I'm switching- they are so much cheaper.
If he had High Output T-12s, then that would be a different story.I agree with Dyngoe in that you may want to go with bulbs that cover the entire length of the tank (30 inches in your case). Why not get compact flourescents or T-5s? (People keep SPS's under enough T-5s.) If you are going to keep a few polyps and softies (there are many kinds), you will find those lights will give you more flexibility in choosing corals. If you join BAR (and I think you should), you will want that flexibility, I promise. Softies also may require higher light depending on the species.
Anyway, I'm glad you posted Phishphood. The corals I promised you require up to med/high lighting. The Green Sarcophyton is pickier than the Gr. Star polyps. I have it under 4.6 watts per gallon half way up the tank, under the lights. (130 watts PC over 28 gallon tank - double what you are planning on having) Also, it will require much more stable conditions. If you haven't started your tank, or have barely started, you should not place sensitive corals in your tank just yet. I think the minimum for stabilization is about 4 months (should show beginning coraline algae growth), and then you can add the easiest/hardiest corals. (Mushrooms, gr. star polyps, anthelia) Xenia can be picky, I've heard. They are prone to melting if conditions are not right. Well, any coral might melt if conditions are not right. I would wait 6-8 months before you put the Sarcophyton in. This green Sarcophyton is pickier than my other Sarcophyton. It will retract and not come out if it does not like the water conditions. Water must be stable, and you must supplement with Iodine and vitamins. Also, your current lighting plan will not support this coral. I will hold it for you until it does, or give you lower light corals instead. Let me know what lighting scheme you go with, and I can adjust the corals accordingly. I do have a low light tank that I can pull from. (But even this low light tank uses PCs)
I highly suggest you do alot of reading on the corals you want to keep; their lighting, water conditions, supplementation needs, and their habits (some are more aggressive than others). It will save you alot of time, money, and unnecessary loss.
A_Lee
Guest
I'm sure you may be able to get away with mushrooms, at the least (or at the most )
Though they may lose their color under sub-par lighting conditions (not saying yours are).
I'm don't think SPS (even light low SPS) will do too well under any of your given lighting schemes IMO ... I think the intensity it lacking. But I could be wrong. And this is also assuming you mean NO bulbs, versus VHO or similar bulbs.
I second Lyn's recommendation for going for a stronger type of lighting. Power compacts at the least for example, would give you much more flexibility with what invertebrates you can keep, and your fish will look better! And if you're up to it, HO T-5's, and you'd be set!
)Though they may lose their color under sub-par lighting conditions (not saying yours are).
I'm don't think SPS (even light low SPS) will do too well under any of your given lighting schemes IMO ... I think the intensity it lacking. But I could be wrong. And this is also assuming you mean NO bulbs, versus VHO or similar bulbs.
I second Lyn's recommendation for going for a stronger type of lighting. Power compacts at the least for example, would give you much more flexibility with what invertebrates you can keep, and your fish will look better! And if you're up to it, HO T-5's, and you'd be set!
bluenassarius
Guest
if your going to run t12's why not just run t5's?
phishphood
Guest
Hmph, lots of things to answer to here
Matt- you're right in that I should probably use 30" T12's. I totally forgot that size existed. However, the 24" choice was also prompted by the fact that I have a few bulbs/ballasts on hand already.
Lyn/Mr. Ugly- I'm tempted to OD the bulbs. I've done it before and have everything I need for it, but that stuff is in Salinas. I'm not sure if I really want to drive down there to get it right now (that's just me being lazy). But that was a 2x24" ODNO setup.
Lyn- the reason I'm not going for T5 or PC lights on this is that I wanted it to be a low maint softy/macro tank. Nothing really big going on in this tank, just putting in a few not-quite-reefsafe fish. In regards to the corals that I spoke to you about, I have my 37g tank w/ 175W halide going just fine. I just need to remove a pygmy angel from there that's picking on my brain. I know I can probably get away with mushrooms just fine with NO lighting, but I couldn't remember about GSP, and I know xenia can be quit finicky and that it varies from tank to tank whether it'll grow. I was just curious if anyone had personal experience with it.
So to sum it all up, this was planned to just be a fun project-style tank. Not my main DT. I was hoping to keep it nice and cheap as well. So any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated (keeping the above in mind), thanks!
edit: here's my tank Lyn- http://www.bareefers.org/discussion/index.php?topic=5347.0
Matt- you're right in that I should probably use 30" T12's. I totally forgot that size existed. However, the 24" choice was also prompted by the fact that I have a few bulbs/ballasts on hand already.
Lyn/Mr. Ugly- I'm tempted to OD the bulbs. I've done it before and have everything I need for it, but that stuff is in Salinas. I'm not sure if I really want to drive down there to get it right now (that's just me being lazy). But that was a 2x24" ODNO setup.
Lyn- the reason I'm not going for T5 or PC lights on this is that I wanted it to be a low maint softy/macro tank. Nothing really big going on in this tank, just putting in a few not-quite-reefsafe fish. In regards to the corals that I spoke to you about, I have my 37g tank w/ 175W halide going just fine. I just need to remove a pygmy angel from there that's picking on my brain. I know I can probably get away with mushrooms just fine with NO lighting, but I couldn't remember about GSP, and I know xenia can be quit finicky and that it varies from tank to tank whether it'll grow. I was just curious if anyone had personal experience with it.
So to sum it all up, this was planned to just be a fun project-style tank. Not my main DT. I was hoping to keep it nice and cheap as well. So any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated (keeping the above in mind), thanks!
edit: here's my tank Lyn- http://www.bareefers.org/discussion/index.php?topic=5347.0
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GreshamH
Guest
The NO set-up you stated is just fine for most softies, a few LPS and even digis (but they won't color up, just grow).
My friend ran a 55g mixed reef off of 4 NO for a long time.
My friend ran a 55g mixed reef off of 4 NO for a long time.
Vincerama2
Supporting Member
I have mushrooms (including ricordia) in my sump, which is running under a 3 year old compact fluourescent. It's a single bulb, the one that Melev pointed out on RC years ago. Too lazy to change it. It was a fuge light for chaeto, but I moved some rocks in there with mushrooms, which have done pretty well down there!
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Dyngoe
Guest
OK, here's my suggestion for an easy to care for 20G long with 24" lights:
Why not do a side by side nano(pico)-style planted tank? Here's what I'm thinking:
Divide off 5 inches from the left of the tank for the overflow/sump area.
Make a picture frame style cabinet for the tank with 8" doors with 2" of molding on each side of the tank. Not under the tank but on the side. On the left side the door will cover the sump are and 1" of the tank. On the right it will cover another 1" of the tank and give you room for other filters and such. This will make the viewable are of the tank 23" with one inch on either side semi-hidden by the frame of the doors. Of course you'll also want a top opening lid to get in and some room on the bottom to hold random power stuff, etc. I hope this makes sense. I'm envisioning a desktop tank that is surrounded by a 8" "frame" with doors on both sides and the top with the bottom being a removable panel access. Here's a "rough" picture:
Why not do a side by side nano(pico)-style planted tank? Here's what I'm thinking:
Divide off 5 inches from the left of the tank for the overflow/sump area.
Make a picture frame style cabinet for the tank with 8" doors with 2" of molding on each side of the tank. Not under the tank but on the side. On the left side the door will cover the sump are and 1" of the tank. On the right it will cover another 1" of the tank and give you room for other filters and such. This will make the viewable are of the tank 23" with one inch on either side semi-hidden by the frame of the doors. Of course you'll also want a top opening lid to get in and some room on the bottom to hold random power stuff, etc. I hope this makes sense. I'm envisioning a desktop tank that is surrounded by a 8" "frame" with doors on both sides and the top with the bottom being a removable panel access. Here's a "rough" picture:
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GreshamH
Guest
Gotta love Sketchup
Lyn
Guest
Phew, I am relieved... I thought you had told me your specs before, so I was confused ???. So Sarco and Zoas in high light tank, and others in this one, I assume?
BTW, if you can run NO T12s on overdrive (or not), why don't more people do it now days? The bulbs are soooo cheap compared to what we pay for other types. Home depot is so much more convenient to shop at and quicker than waiting for things to ship.
Also Norm (or anybody), can you safely run lower wattage MH bulbs on a higher watt ballast? 125 watt bulb on a 250 or 400 watt ballast? (sorry to interject this here, but I was thinking about this since we are talking about lighting)
BTW, if you can run NO T12s on overdrive (or not), why don't more people do it now days? The bulbs are soooo cheap compared to what we pay for other types. Home depot is so much more convenient to shop at and quicker than waiting for things to ship.
Also Norm (or anybody), can you safely run lower wattage MH bulbs on a higher watt ballast? 125 watt bulb on a 250 or 400 watt ballast? (sorry to interject this here, but I was thinking about this since we are talking about lighting)
Dyngoe
Guest
Well, it is said that T12s are not as efficient as T5s. But the truth is T5s have better reflectors so you get more light into your tank. T12s have 180 internal reflectors that "work" but a lot of light is still shot to the sides. If there were reflectors for T12s, I would assume they would be just as good as T5s, BUT they'd be MUCH bigger.
phishphood
Guest
IIRC- it's really not a good idea to run MH bulbs that way. They probably wouldn't/shouldn't light and if they did, it'd probably drastically reduce the life of the bulb and still be dangerous. And as for the corals, this tank wasn't even in the planning stages (it came up by chance 2 weeks ago).
Matt- love the idea, but it can't happen with this tank. At least not at the moment as I'm probably going to fill it today or tomorrow so I can get some problem fish out of my other tank. But I will use your idea with a 5g or 2.5g tank in the near future.
Oh, and as for the T12 vs T5 question- the bulbs are also a lot larger. For concentrated lighting like we use in our tanks, it's nicer to have less of the light wasted on restrike, or whatever the term is. Basically when the light goes from bulb to reflector, but then hits the bulb again and is wasted. Like Matt said, if we did make reflectors for T12's...you could probably fit 2 T5 bulbs/reflectors in the same area with much greater light output.
Matt- love the idea, but it can't happen with this tank. At least not at the moment as I'm probably going to fill it today or tomorrow so I can get some problem fish out of my other tank. But I will use your idea with a 5g or 2.5g tank in the near future.
Oh, and as for the T12 vs T5 question- the bulbs are also a lot larger. For concentrated lighting like we use in our tanks, it's nicer to have less of the light wasted on restrike, or whatever the term is. Basically when the light goes from bulb to reflector, but then hits the bulb again and is wasted. Like Matt said, if we did make reflectors for T12's...you could probably fit 2 T5 bulbs/reflectors in the same area with much greater light output.
Lyn
Guest
Could you use a reflector (tinfoil) in the hood or canopy to redirect some of that light? If you could cram enough T-12s in a spot - say 6 over a 55/75 gal. (240 watts), would that have the same effect as comparable wattage of pcs or t-5s? What about intensity or penetration of that light over depth?
phishphood
Guest
I don't think you could fit 6 T12 bulbs w/ indiv reflectors over a 55g tank. Now you could do it w/ just one large reflector, but then it's worth looking at fewer bulbs w/ indiv reflectors. As for the reflector, I believe flat white paint is better than just about anything we can easily get our hands on.
I still think 4x54W T5HO's would be better lighting.
I still think 4x54W T5HO's would be better lighting.
Lyn
Guest
Yes, I agree. But since we were talking cheap DIY, I wondered if it could be done to where you could support low light corals and still have coloring.
I've done 4 bulbs over a 55 for a planted tank. I guess you could put 6 over a 75 gal., but didn't know if the intensity was too low to support corals.
gotta run and get kids - contact you later.
But since we were talking cheap DIY, I wondered if it could be done to where you could support low light corals and still have coloring.I've done 4 bulbs over a 55 for a planted tank. I guess you could put 6 over a 75 gal., but didn't know if the intensity was too low to support corals.
gotta run and get kids - contact you later.