Reef nutrition

PE Mysis - Not their favorite food? - What does everyone feed? (Updated)

I agree with the logic of feeding a variety of things. However I think sometimes there's logical fallacies in reefing around successes. One of those "if success and did A, therefore A is required or part of success". That's sometimes true, but I think the research it's important to try and separate what someone did that led to success, versus someone getting success despite what they did.

Again, in this instance I believe from a gut standpoint eating a variety of stuff is a great strategy, but would be great to know any rigorous experiments around this stuff. Eg as a counter, doesn't a significant percentage of the fish people eat come from fisheries, and aren't those fish fed pellets?
 
richiev said:
I hope this isn't a hijack, but I think it's on topic because of the "what does everyone feed" comment.

Is there any proof Selcon is more than snake oil? It has all the hallmarks of snake oil, similar to how garlic enriched does. Is there any real research showing it does anything?

In non freeze dried food, I find it difficult to believe much is absorbed. In any food I'm wondering if there are real nutritional gaps it'd absorb. Part of the reason I say this is it seems to be referred to with a mystical aura, which triggers my alarms. Part of it because in humans I believe multi vitamins also have no proof of mattering, and can be detrimental, unless you have a specific extreme deficiency.

CC'ing @JVU since this question seems right up his wheelhouse.

On the original question, I haven't had issues with fish and mysis. It seems meaty, my fish have always ate it, and it's easy to use as a lps food. I prefer the bigger kind for the same reasons, though I hate cube food. Seems very wasteful with packaging, and I usually want the chunks broken into different sizes anyway.
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I’m with you on this, I stopped bothering with garlic and selcon. I’m willing to have my mind changed but I’ve seen very little compelling evidence that either one makes a difference in the health or disease resilience of fish. I’m always in favor of putting fewer things in my tank too!
 
richiev said:
I agree with the logic of feeding a variety of things. However I think sometimes there's logical fallacies in reefing around successes. One of those "if success and did A, therefore A is required or part of success". That's sometimes true, but I think the research it's important to try and separate what someone did that led to success, versus someone getting success despite what they did.

Again, in this instance I believe from a gut standpoint eating a variety of stuff is a great strategy, but would be great to know any rigorous experiments around this stuff. Eg as a counter, doesn't a significant percentage of the fish people eat come from fisheries, and aren't those fish fed pellets?
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Here's what Google Gemini says in response to the question "Is there any research showing Selcon helps with the health of fish in an aquarium?" https://g.co/bard/share/3b3be3e8a2a1

While Selcon is widely used by aquarists, there's limited definitive scientific research that proves its direct benefits to fish health. Here's a breakdown of the information:

What is Selcon?
* Highly concentrated supplement containing fatty acids, vitamins, and amino acids.
* Manufacturers claim it boosts immune systems, aids breeding, and improves overall fish health.

Supportive Evidence (Mostly anecdotal):
* Many aquarists report increased fish health, color, and vitality when using Selcon.
* Some studies suggest fatty acids improve fish reproductive health.

Why No Definitive Proof?
* Studies focused on Selcon's specific formula are lacking.
* Many factors affect fish health, making it hard to isolate Selcon's impact.
Important Considerations:
* Selcon shouldn't replace a balanced, high-quality diet.
* Overusing supplements can be harmful.

Conclusion:
Selcon likely won't hurt your fish, and it might have some benefits. However, without solid research, it's best considered a potential boost alongside a well-maintained aquarium and pro
per nutrition.
 
Marine fish can’t make their own EPA or DHA (unlike freshwater fish) so if you are feeding foods low in those fatty acids it could help to add Selcon. Not all ornamental fish food companies are transparent with nutrition facts so sometimes the only way to know if you aren’t feeding enough EPA or DHA is to try Selcon and see if your fish seem to have better energy or color.

IMG_1507.jpeg
 
phc567 said:
I make my own food. For about 50 dollars of fish, clams, squid , and whatever else is on sale from the Asian market( I try to only buy seafood from Indo pacific or Asia as that’s where the fish are from) plus vitamins, seaweed, and whatever else I have laying around. I’m good for a year
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And this is what I will try now too. It seems as if this is a best practice, although a bit inconvenient to do for the first time. Do you use gelatine as well? Any recipe that I could follow :)? I am planning to add the following - does this look acceptable?
  • Mussells
  • Small neck clams
  • Fish eggs
  • Shrimp
  • Scallops
  • Oysters
  • Squid?
  • Nori
  • White fish?
  • Vitamins/Selcon etc

I have come across this interview with the guy who had his tank for 50 years (or rather the inside of his tank :)). Some very contentious statements on fish quarantine which might raise eyebrows, but the point he is trying to make is that the key to healthy fish is food which is not necessarily bought in stores. Seems like when food is frozen commercially, the process is different than freezing it at home (I never thought about this before), potentially diminshing nutirents. Not sure if this is only applicable to fish food as I cannot believe this applies to human food too. He is also making interesting statements on the perennial water change debate. Whether agreeable or not, there are not too many sources of folks who have the same tank (content) for 20 year plus, which seems to provide a different perspective on what success means.

 
I read fish eggs don’t last even in frozen state. Not sure how true it is.

I recommend getting whole small fish , like mackerel, smelt, . They are cheap and readily available in Asian market.

It will be a pain to chuck clams/mussell. Not sure the cooked version is any good for fish. I used to able to buy frozen raw clam meat from whole food. Not anymore . I would skip the clams but add more oysters.

I mixed in freeze dry food (mysis, reef chile , etc) to the party for whatever it’s worth.
 
Alexander1312 said:
And this is what I will try now too. It seems as if this is a best practice, although a bit inconvenient to do for the first time. Do you use gelatine as well? Any recipe that I could follow :)? I am planning to add the following - does this look acceptable?
  • Mussells
  • Small neck clams
  • Fish eggs
  • Shrimp
  • Scallops
  • Oysters
  • Squid?
  • Nori
  • White fish?
  • Vitamins/Selcon etc

I have come across this interview with the guy who had his tank for 50 years (or rather the inside of his tank :)). Some very contentious statements on fish quarantine which might raise eyebrows, but the point he is trying to make is that the key to healthy fish is food which is not necessarily bought in stores. Seems like when food is frozen commercially, the process is different than freezing it at home (I never thought about this before), potentially diminshing nutirents. Not sure if this is only applicable to fish food as I cannot believe this applies to human food too. He is also making interesting statements on the perennial water change debate. Whether agreeable or not, there are not too many sources of folks who have the same tank (content) for 20 year plus, which seems to provide a different perspective on what success means.

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Paul B is a huge fan of white worms and mud from the Atlantic Ocean. But on the topic of food. I just put in whatever is on sale that is from the area that the fish live in the wild and that is raw. Never cooked. I get party tins and large zipper freezer bags from the dollar store. I thaw it out. Rinse to remove phosphate and nitrate plus whatever else, grind in a food processor until it’s the size I like. Into the party platter, mix and add whatever. If it gets too thick I add water. I make two different kinds an all meat one and a meat and veggies one. Veggies one is more veggies less meat. I make the meat one first then veggies with the leftover meat. Put it into the freezer bags. Make sure they are flat. No more than a 1/8” thick or they will be hard to break when frozen. Lay it flat in my deep freezer. And I’m done for the year.
Oh what do I put in there ? Everything. The kitchen sink. Fish squid, clam, mussels pellets, nori, vitamins, reef roids etc
Oh some people believe that you should use the guts of the animals to promote fish gut health but I’ve never done it.
 
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Is there an advantage to making your own seafood blend over something like LRS or Rod's?

I switched to LRS mostly to accomplish a similar goal. It seems like it has all the right things, and based on my shallow research, consists of pretty fresh ingredients that are frozen quickly. My fish seem to love it. I also feed Nori, Pellets, etc but LRS has become a really good go-to over just the typical mysis or brine cubes.

I love the idea of making my own seafood mixture but LRS is so much easier and seems to get 90% of the way there? Or no?
 
SepToob said:
Is there an advantage to making your own seafood blend over something like LRS or Rod's?

I switched to LRS mostly to accomplish a similar goal. It seems like it has all the right things, and based on my shallow research, consists of pretty fresh ingredients that are frozen quickly. My fish seem to love it. I also feed Nori, Pellets, etc but LRS has become a really good go-to over just the typical mysis or brine cubes.

I love the idea of making my own seafood mixture but LRS is so much easier and seems to get 90% of the way there? Or no?
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Yup basically the same stuff. Just diy method. Rods and lrs is good stuff. I just diy where I can.
99% of this hobby comes from somewhere else. I like the challenge of finding the source. This doesn’t just pertain to food but to everything. Big fish wholesale and coral places are not using Red Sea nopox , Kent kalkwasser. They go to the source. So I try to figure it out.
 
SepToob said:
Cool, good to know. How does doing it DIY compare on cost?
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That all depends on you and what you add.
Example is Dong ( acro garden ). He makes his own food but he only uses shrimp and salmon. Nothing else. I’m cheap. I buy anything that’s on sale from Asian, indo-pacific, areas. That’s cost me about 50 dollars. Then I add whatever else I have at that time. Reef roids, spirulina, ground up pellets, vitamins, etc.
I normally get a big party platter. And it fills it. Last me about 10-12 months. I have about 40 fish. I feed it to them 2 times a day plus nori. That’s 1 pack. I get about 10 of the tray
 

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phc567 said:
That all depends on you and what you add.
Example is Dong ( acro garden ). He makes his own food but he only uses shrimp and salmon. Nothing else. I’m cheap. I buy anything that’s on sale from Asian, indo-pacific, areas. That’s cost me about 50 dollars. Then I add whatever else I have at that time. Reef roids, spirulina, ground up pellets, vitamins, etc.
I normally get a big party platter. And it fills it. Last me about 10-12 months. I have about 40 fish. I feed it to them 2 times a day plus nori. That’s 1 pack. I get about 10 of those.
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That's a pretty huge cost savings over LRS. Thanks for sharing! Maybe when my kids grow up a little more I'll take this on.
 
phc567 said:
I make my own food. For about 50 dollars of fish, clams, squid , and whatever else is on sale from the Asian market( I try to only buy seafood from Indo pacific or Asia as that’s where the fish are from) plus vitamins, seaweed, and whatever else I have laying around. I’m good for a year
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I was doing that-I don’t think B appreciated me using the vitamix though.
 
@Alexander1312 -
For now I have only 8 fish and a ton of corals so current feeding regimen

Reef nutrition all 2x a day - all dosed-
Oyster feast (corals only)
Rotifers (think corals only but blenny might be eating it)
ROE-corals and fish. Fish love this stuff like crack
Mysis shrimp-all fish seem to eat it but may swap out for pac pods. TBD

AVAST reef jerky 1x a day.
Nyos algae pellets 1-2x a day.

Tropic Marin amino acids 1x a day.
Think that is it..
 
All these combined at various feedings. Plus selcon and vitamix sometimes. Just got these different types of sea weed few weeks ago the fish seem to love it. Its alot more tougher and natural form so the fish gota work at it compared to the reg nore we buy which is like butter. I have different types of weed and put it in a coffee grinder to mix with other stuff so all the fish get some the clowns love it. Works with the clips & pouches. Sea weed absorbs alot of pollutants in water which is why I went with that product supposedly they have the cleanest water around where they harvest. At times will toss in extra live fishing bait like pile worms/grass shrimp etc that get rapidly devoured ( I do not have cleaner shrimps in tanks). Heck if I could find cubed frozen flat worms Id love to add it to the mix that way all the fish may adapt to pest control if needed! Had a clown who loved flat worms that I put temporary in my sump until she jumped up over 5 inches into another chamber and became skimmer food ugg! Egg crate over that section now.
 
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