Please help with Auto water change planning

[FreahSaltyGuy]

Hello all,

I finally have my 220 gal finally up and running with 75 gallon sump (running about 55 gallons in it) currently cycling. A big upgrade from my successful 40 gallon reef tank that has been running for about a year (yes I got the Reef Fever). The tank is up against a wall that has the back yard on the other side. I have 2, 55 gallon barrels to use, and I purchased a 3/4" wall pass through tube that I can run water/drain lines through.
Here is my issue. The drain part I believe is easy I can put the small put with 1/4" hose on a smart plug that runs let's say for 5 minutes once a week to drain the water from sump. At the same time I have a smart plug on the Main tank return pump that turns off the main pump at the same time so I don't have to worry about water being too low. The issue I have is how do I use a ATO system when my 55 gallon barrels will sit about 25 ft. from the outside wall where the plumbing comes out. If I have a pump on that barrel to pump free salt water in from the barrel, do I just put that on little pump from the barrel on another smart plug with a 5 minute schedule? The emergency stop would be to put the ATO in the SUMP and have the sensor shut off a solenoid valve and as a secondary backup have a manual float valve.
Am I thinking of this the right way? This is the best I can come up with because I don't see how I can get a cable long enough 30ft. or so to go from the ATO unit to the small pump in the barrel outside.
This MAY or MAY NOT be a forever solution as I am looking to try the Moonshiners method that cuts out water changes/minimizes them, but I also will have the ability to change the water in case things go south in the tank. Please let me know if pics or diagram is needed to help better understand this design.

 

[psidriven]

you can run a persitalic pump to pull water from new sw bin and shuts off when float sensor is tripped. won't need a 30ft cable, timer, solenoid or float valve. though timer might be good backup. float valves don't work with persitalic pumps though.

 

[FreahSaltyGuy]

you can run a persitalic pump to pull water from new sw bin and shuts off when float sensor is tripped. won't need a 30ft cable, timer, solenoid or float valve. though timer might be good backup. float valves don't work with persitalic pumps though.

What kind of float sensor do I need? I'm trying not to go the Apex route is this what you are talking about?

 

[Baka Mop]

What kind of float sensor do I need? I'm trying not to go the Apex route is this what you are talking about?

I just run two ecotech versas on auto waterchange mode on a daily schedule. One drawing in new water and one pulling out old water at the same time, although you'll lose a small portion of new saltwater this way, it's simpler than trying to manage float sensors and sump water levels, and everything stays running. Then I empty/refill the containers when they run out using saltwater I prepped in bulk.

I set the container volume and daily limit on the app so it doesnt overfill the container if I forget to dump it out.

 

[Invictus]

I just run two ecotech versas on auto waterchange mode on a daily schedule. One drawing in new water and one pulling out old water at the same time, although you'll lose a small portion of new saltwater this way, it's simpler than trying to manage float sensors and sump water levels, and everything stays running. Then I empty/refill the containers when they run out using saltwater I prepped in bulk.

I set the container volume and daily limit on the app so it doesnt overfill the container if I forget to dump it out.

This is what I would do. No need to deal with float sensors or water levels. Keep things as simple as possible and just calculate how long you need the peristaltic pumps on for each day in order to change the desired amount of water. Drip the new water "downstream" of the uptake so that your new water is not immediately being removed.

 

[Baka Mop]

This is what I would do. No need to deal with float sensors or water levels. Keep things as simple as possible and just calculate how long you need the peristaltic pumps on for each day in order to change the desired amount of water. Drip the new water "downstream" of the uptake so that your new water is not immediately being removed.

Yup exactly. I pull the old water out at the overflow area of the sump and drip new water at the return pump area.

 

[psidriven]

that sounds much easier, but how do you get the export pump to match the import pump? how to make sure the amount taken out matches what's put back?

 

[Invictus]

that sounds much easier, but how do you get the export pump to match the import pump? how to make sure the amount taken out matches what's put back?

You simply run them both for the same amount of time. Easy as that. As long as you have two of the same peristaltic pump heads they should operate at the same drip rate. One pump is pulling water out of the sump and into a drain or waste water bucket, the other pump is pulling fresh salt water from your reservoir and into the return pump area of the sump.

 

[psidriven]

ahh, gotcha. its not exact but close enough so there won't be huge salinity swings. you'd catch and correct any issues with regular salinity checks.

 

[richiev]

You also can buy peristaltic pumps that have a double head. One pump, two outlets. That also doesn't guarantee anything, since based on tubing runs and tubing wear they might run at different rates, but even less to coordinate if you're ok with that approach.

I personally would be paranoid one of those pumps/tubes are going to get plugged or die, and I'd end up in a bad state. Either I pump out too much and my ATO goes crazy refilling, or I don't pump enough and either overflow or cause a slow salinity spike because the ATO wouldn't ever kick on.

I feel having two pumps, keeping the drain line high in the sump and having an electronic float value attached to the fill, would make it pretty safe though.

 

[Coral reefer]

I know it’s not what the thread is about, but why not just set it up for a weekly or every two weeks bigger water change where you just turn valves and a pump on? Way less to go wrong

 

[Baka Mop]

ahh, gotcha. its not exact but close enough so there won't be huge salinity swings. you'd catch and correct any issues with regular salinity checks.

They have a calibration feature so that they are always consistent on the amount up to like 0.1ml. You can set a daily dosing limit to whatever amount you want and also set a container volume so that it stops when it reaches that amount. A float switch to shut off the power to the pumps completely would be a good redundancy, but I think it would be more hassle than anything.

Auto water change systems are the best thing since filter rollers, and I probably wouldn't be doing them very often if I didn't have it.

 

[FreahSaltyGuy]

O

I just run two ecotech versas on auto waterchange mode on a daily schedule. One drawing in new water and one pulling out old water at the same time, although you'll lose a small portion of new saltwater this way, it's simpler than trying to manage float sensors and sump water levels, and everything stays running. Then I empty/refill the containers when they run out using saltwater I prepped in bulk.

I set the container volume and daily limit on the app so it doesnt overfill the container if I forget to dump it out.

OH this sounds great!do you have pics of your setup?

 

[Umrigark]

I have exactly same setup two 55 gallon barrels in my backyard; they are right on the opposite side of the Tank though.

I use Apex DOS to auto-water change 1.5 gallons it’s very precise I check it every once in a while. It has two pumps in one dumps water out and other brings in fresh saltwater simultaneously. This water change happens within one hour and I pause my ATO during water change. Both DOS and ATO are in APEX so it’s simple. Warning DOS is noisy but with some sound buffer and timing it when people are away it’s not that much of a pain.

Also, I pull waste water from overflow/return line section and put new water into the return pump section so it goes directly to the tank. Don’t care about some fresh salt water drained out.

 

[Baka Mop]

O

OH this sounds great!do you have pics of your setup?

ATO on the left and AWC on the right. I only have enough space for two 5-gallon containers, but it still beats regular water changes.