got ethical husbandry?

QT: how much do you do?

IOnceWasLegend

IOnceWasLegend

Frag Swap Coordinator
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After having a tank wiped out by velvet, I'm very much on the "QT fish" bandwagon. I'm debating how far down that rabbit hole I want to go, though, with coral and inverts.

My rationale is that I'm going to have all fish QT'd, and won't add new corals to the tank until the fish are all stocked. I'll be running a 50w UV sterilizer in 270g total volume, so that should hopefully act as one line of defense; and I can always preemptively do selcon and garlic whenever a new coral is added.

But I'm still not sure, so just thought I'd ask you all: what, and how, do you QT?
 
For fish I start with hyposalinity - this gives them a break (from processing and expelling salts) so they can have energy to heal and their immune system can start working well again after the transport and handling they’ve been through.

Hyposalinity (12ppt) is also effective against marine ich and worms (sometimes worms are resistant to Prazi and you end up having to do hypo anyway). Then Meteoplex for velvet and uronema. I like to bring the salinity back up using display tank water for water changes so I can see if the fish react to any pathogens that might be in the display tank while they are still in the QT tank where I can treat them.
 
I initially kept a small isolation tank that I would put new fish into. It helped me avoid getting flukes into my display, since a firefish I bought from a LFS showed flukes in that isolation tank before I put it in the display. I thought buying inverts and such from well-known/reputable online dealers would be safe, but I was proven wrong. I ordered a clean up crew from one of those dealers and put everything temporarily into my isolation tank first.

Days after adding the CUC to the isolation tank, the fish suddenly had ich. Also I know that my main tank got vermetids from an earlier CUC order where I put the snails directly into the display.

I now trust nothing, including things I get from people here on this forum (no offense intended). For fish I find it most effective to buy QT'ed; costs more for the fish, but then I'm not paying for fish that die in QT nor the chemicals, nor dealing with the giant time suck a QT tank is. For inverts I've been buying them from trusted places, but still tossing them into a small 10g tank I have as a backup. I leave them in there for a bit until I get the desire to add them elsewhere. I don't have a process, but I figure a couple days in there to see if anything weird sprouts up is better than just tossing it straight in.

For corals I dip everything and then put it into my frag tank, which does have fish in it. I'm not super rigorous on this, but again I figure like the inverts it at least gives me the chance to see if something crazy happens.

So overall, I think buying QT'ed is the way to go and then for everything else isolation is prudent. I think doing QT yourself likely isn't cost effective, nor time effective, unless you have no other place to buy from. Luckily we have High Tide / @under_water_ninja for the bay area, and there's various online dealers if you can't do that.
 
richiev said:
I initially kept a small isolation tank that I would put new fish into. It helped me avoid getting flukes into my display, since a firefish I bought from a LFS showed flukes in that isolation tank before I put it in the display. I thought buying inverts and such from well-known/reputable online dealers would be safe, but I was proven wrong. I ordered a clean up crew from one of those dealers and put everything temporarily into my isolation tank first.

Days after adding the CUC to the isolation tank, the fish suddenly had ich. Also I know that my main tank got vermetids from an earlier CUC order where I put the snails directly into the display.

I now trust nothing, including things I get from people here on this forum (no offense intended). For fish I find it most effective to buy QT'ed; costs more for the fish, but then I'm not paying for fish that die in QT nor the chemicals, nor dealing with the giant time suck a QT tank is. For inverts I've been buying them from trusted places, but still tossing them into a small 10g tank I have as a backup. I leave them in there for a bit until I get the desire to add them elsewhere. I don't have a process, but I figure a couple days in there to see if anything weird sprouts up is better than just tossing it straight in.

For corals I dip everything and then put it into my frag tank, which does have fish in it. I'm not super rigorous on this, but again I figure like the inverts it at least gives me the chance to see if something crazy happens.

So overall, I think buying QT'ed is the way to go and then for everything else isolation is prudent. I think doing QT yourself likely isn't cost effective, nor time effective, unless you have no other place to buy from. Luckily we have High Tide / @under_water_ninja for the bay area, and there's various online dealers if you can't do that.
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Did you add the water from the cuc crew to QT. The ick could be more likely in the water vs on the Crew
 
IOnceWasLegend said:
Thanks for the input everyone.

I was already planning on getting the majority of my livestock through @under_water_ninja (with the exception of a kole tang at a local store, because *holy crap they have an actual yellow eye kole for a not insane price*), but just wanted input on what everyone does for fish and not-fish. :)
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Just for the sake of curiosity…..what’s the price for yellow eyed Kole tang? I have one already and it’s one of my favorite fish. I bought mine for $150 (sucker price) right after the Hawaii ban happened.
 
I buy fish QT’d by by a pro and just add them.
I dip coral then add them.
I visually inspect inverts then add them.

I’m not claiming my way is best. But if I had to do full QT on everything myself I’d quit the hobby, so this is my compromise.
 
Chromis said:
For fish I start with hyposalinity - this gives them a break (from processing and expelling salts) so they can have energy to heal and their immune system can start working well again after the transport and handling they’ve been through.

Hyposalinity (12ppt) is also effective against marine ich and worms (sometimes worms are resistant to Prazi and you end up having to do hypo anyway). Then Meteoplex for velvet and uronema. I like to bring the salinity back up using display tank water for water changes so I can see if the fish react to any pathogens that might be in the display tank while they are still in the QT tank where I can treat them.
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Just for clarity, that sort of hypo will not kill
Of the parasites! Crypt tomots can with stand any hypo you through at them, they can live, not thrive in almost no salt, unless it’s for a very long period of time. By running hypo like that, you would just be suppressing it and not really knowing it was there, then raising the salinity back up, that parasite is going to thrive again and start going to work fast! Plus bringing fish back up in salinity iis hard on them especially from that low. Also metronadizole does not kill uronema, it works great on all the other stuff but not uronema. I changed out metro for formalin a couple months ago, fish still get metro in the foods though.
 
under_water_ninja said:
Just for clarity, that sort of hypo will not kill
Of the parasites! Crypt tomots can with stand any hypo you through at them, they can live, not thrive in almost no salt, unless it’s for a very long period of time. By running hypo like that, you would just be suppressing it and not really knowing it was there, then raising the salinity back up, that parasite is going to thrive again and start going to work fast! Plus bringing fish back up in salinity iis hard on them especially from that low. Also metronadizole does not kill uronema, it works great on all the other stuff but not uronema. I changed out metro for formalin a couple months ago, fish still get metro in the foods though.
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Thanks for that info guess it's a mood point to dip in freshwater for 5 minutes which seems to be common now. I don't Qt just an 40 g breeder with corals and a couple resident clowns for observation before the bigger tank. I dip corals followed by a small metal scraper and toothbrush on base and frag plug in freshwater. Cucs get the same metal scraper and brushing holding in freshwater. Then toss in the 40g for a while. I don't have any small tiny cucs just hundreds of asterina stars. Just wondering now if the freshwater scrub is a waste of time?
 
under_water_ninja said:
Just for clarity, that sort of hypo will not kill
Of the parasites! Crypt tomots can with stand any hypo you through at them, they can live, not thrive in almost no salt, unless it’s for a very long period of time. By running hypo like that, you would just be suppressing it and not really knowing it was there, then raising the salinity back up, that parasite is going to thrive again and start going to work fast! Plus bringing fish back up in salinity iis hard on them especially from that low. Also metronadizole does not kill uronema, it works great on all the other stuff but not uronema. I changed out metro for formalin a couple months ago, fish still get metro in the foods though.
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I’m referring to QT fish in hyposalinity (not a quick dip), are you talking about dips…?
My information on treating marine ich w/hyposalinity and Uronema with Metroplex (metronizole) is from Fowler's Zoo and Wild Animal Medicine Current Therapy, Volume 9 2019, article ”Techniques for Addressing Parasites in Saltwater Aquariums.”

Raising salinity is hard on fish, so is to a lesser extent lowering salinity, so it has to be done slowly, like 2-3 ppt per day. If you see a fish stressed by a 2-3ppt change per day it could be because of alkalinity - I get around this by adding sodium bicarbonate to the RODI I dilute the saltwater with, and bringing the salinity back up with water changes, not relying on evaporation alone which can increase alkalinity too. When I’ve put fish through hypo they come out healthier and more energetic than they went in so whatever stress it puts on them seems to be outweighed by the benefits.
 
Fish: I do Tank transfer method with H2O2 dips and general cure as prescribed by humble fish.

Corals: I cut off anything I can that is not living tissue. I try to encapsulate any remaining rock/skeleton with glue (within reason.) They get a dip and then go into fishless frag tank. I try to leave anything that had solid surfaces that I couldn't remove in that tank for at least 30 days, normally 45 (I can't find the reference, but I'm under the impression that 45 days is a pretty high % of ich being gone.) SPS that I was able to cut at clean tissue I only keep in a short time (a week or so), unless something came off in the dip.

Inverts: I have put snails (supposedly from fishless systems) directly in my tanks. I plan to start adding them to my frag tank for 45+ days now.
 
Some Rando said:
Just for the sake of curiosity…..what’s the price for yellow eyed Kole tang? I have one already and it’s one of my favorite fish. I bought mine for $150 (sucker price) right after the Hawaii ban happened.
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It was $109. I have no idea where they got it from, but they were kind enough to hold it for me today when I asked (which was VERY lucky because someone apparently wanted it five minutes after I called).
 
I only buy QT’d fish from pros… including @under_water_ninja and a couple other guys I trust (whom I met thru humble fish).

At one point I didn’t QT corals or inverts (for fish disease) but then got ich from a frag shipment. So now have a small 15g invert & coral QT. I do a daily 20% AWC from the DT to the QT so theoretically the parameters match which will be useful for when I move frags over.

I keep track of everything I put in QT via the reminders app on my iPhone.

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I usually mark the 30 day point just for reference but I go at least 45 days
 
alvarengadaniel8 said:
I would just go to @under_water_ninja as qt is more of a precise science and not a skill.
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Hey man there’s a little skill evolved!! Lol, not really, it’s more about precise measurements and timing of the dosing of the meds and testing properly. The skill comes into play on the husbandry side! Trying to get finicky fish to eat like copper bands, idols, certain anthias and what not. And having them in a nice low stress environment
 
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