Kessil

Quarantine Fish?

MolaMola said:
So each fish shipment is kept together and isolated from all other shipments? I don't know how a shop can do that. I have heard of filters between tanks on the same system, but I did not think that would be enough.
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I think he’s going to be cutting down on wild caught fish because of the difficulty in getting healthy fish from suppliers and getting them through a QT process. But yes, his tanks in the back are separated from each other as far as I can tell.
 
Cutting out the wild caught ones only limits you to a few types of fish. At that rate the is no point in quarantine as most of the captive bred one are pretty normal fish.


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Cruz Mc5 said:
My understanding is that dipping won’t kill any eggs that happen to be on the coral or plug. So if there are any eggs on the frag or plug, then a dip won’t be enough. The dip will only kill free swimming stuff that is still on the coral.
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Most fish parasites will not harbor on living coral tissue including eggs and cysts, but I agree that on the plug or dead coral skeleton, then yes they can still be attached. I do QT pretty much anything that is wet (a month for fish, up to 3 months for coral colonies, inverts vary). And try to understand as much as I can about the chain of custody prior to introducing into my big DT. I could see that for someone that has a much smaller setup and less money and time invested, that the damage from the risk would be lower.
 
Wlachnit said:
Most fish parasites will not harbor on living coral tissue including eggs and cysts, but I agree that on the plug or dead coral skeleton, then yes they can still be attached. I do QT pretty much anything that is wet (a month for fish, up to 3 months for coral colonies, inverts vary). And try to understand as much as I can about the chain of custody prior to introducing into my big DT. I could see that for someone that has a much smaller setup and less money and time invested, that the damage from the risk would be lower.
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What Will said as you add the more expensive stuff the minor lapse in quarantine could cost you thousands.


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I am making some big assumptions / guesses on the exact numbers, but the idea generally holds.

You say the vendor does some QT and takes care of the fish,
so lets say there is a low 10% chance of the fish being infected.

Of all infections and so on, ich is like 90%. (Unless it is a clownfish)

Unless you are experienced and have a good QT setup, the odds are actually
fairly high of stressing the fish, having ammonia spikes, and so on.
So lets say a 20% chance that QT will harm the fish, but 80% chance of full cure.
Plus, it is still not perfect, so lets say 1% get through.

You can also do bucket transfer method (TTM), that is quite safe, effectively kills ich, but ONLY ich.
So 5% chance of harming fish, 90% chance of curing ich, 5% chance of doing nothing.

So putting it all together....

No QT at all : 10% chance of killing everything in your tank, 0 risk to new fish.
Do TTM QT : 1% chance of killing everything in your tank, 5% risk to new fish.
Do full QT : 0.01% chance of killing everything in your tank, 20% risk to new fish.

Those numbers are almost certainly wrong, but you get the idea.

It is a choice. It all depends on your setup and everything.
I actually do both TTM + QT, but I have a big system.
 
I’ve actually been thinking about the TTM lately. I like that it is pretty much 100% effective against ich without the use of medications. I don’t like that it takes a complete system change every 72 hours, but there’s always going to be down sides to a given treatment plan.

At this point I should probably wait at least 16 days before I introduce fish to my system though, since I’ve added some cheato that wasn’t through a QT process. That way I’ll know the tank is starting out clean. Still undecided about what to do about the CUC and corals though.
 
Ich is not the worst problem these days. Velvet and uronema , Brook is more rampant. Ive got Ich in my tank after quarantine everything but frags. So far I haven't lost a any fish from Ich. Now a velvet outbreak would be super costly.


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scuzy said:
Ich is not the worst problem these days. Velvet and uronema , Brook is more rampant. Ive got Ich in my tank after quarantine everything but frags. So far I haven't lost a any fish from Ich. Now a velvet outbreak would be super costly.


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Interesting. You get out of date fast...
I guess TTM can cure Velvet also.

Uronema probably needs real treatment.
Although TTM is good for that also, since you can exactly set dosage levels.
In a normal QT, copper/whatever levels drop, so you have to add more, usually guessing at levels.
Since TTM starts fresh each 2 days, not really a problem.
 
scuzy said:
I trust humblefish and a few others on r2r than that guy.


Here is the reason why

Velvet an TTM
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1020&share_tid=269592&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Velvet-an-TTM.269592/&share_type=t

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Hmmm...

So that first expert negative comment from brew12 does not really make scientific sense.
What matters is the delay from the start of Protomonts dropping off fish through the cyst hatching.
Your TTM period must be less than that time, so they never get a chance to hatch and re-infect.
How often they randomly drop off is irrelevant.
You simply assume the worst case, of immediately after you change buckets.

But the second simpler comment about velvet being so bad makes a lot of sense.

Basically:
TTM may or may not break re-infection.
But with velvet, you cannot wait that long, since fish may die from the first infection.
 
Also they reproduce too fast like within 12 hours. So that requires ttm every 10 hours. You mind as well don't go to work for two weeks. :)


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scuzy said:
Also they reproduce too fast like within 12 hours. So that requires ttm every 10 hours. You mind as well don't go to work for two weeks. :)


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Hmm, I saw 3 days for the cyst phase.

I think one key thing we have learned - there is not a lot of really good information out there on this yet.
 
rygh said:
Hmm, I saw 3 days for the cyst phase.

I think one key thing we have learned - there is not a lot of really good information out there on this yet.
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I don't know about the three days as once a fish gets velvet they die withing days. Means the reproduction and speed on infection is really short unlike Ich.


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scuzy said:
I don't know about the three days as once a fish gets velvet they die withing days. Means the reproduction and speed on infection is really short unlike Ich.


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The cyst phase is after they drop off the fish. Little eggs attached to the substrate, soon to hatch and re-infect.
TTM kills cysts only, by removing them, then bleach.

But you are exactly right - the fish dies very quickly - from the first infection.
 
All that said - TTM may not save a fish, but it would keep other fish from getting it.
If you buy several fish and only one has velvet, by using TTM, it would not spread.
 
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