Rygh's 250 gallon upgrade

[rygh]

I thought people might get a kick out of the "little hole" the power heads made
with the original setup last week.

From Aquarium_Release

 

[ryanjiang]

What a entertainment reading these interesting discussions of flow.

 

[rygh]

So I tested a fair number of gyre methods.
They all work - sortof, but not great.
I get good flow except for about 1.5 feet on each end. The water stalls out there.

The best so far seems to be 6 power heads (3 at a time), running a horizontal gyre.
One large power head on the front, and two on the back - at each end.
I can actually get enough flow to pretty easily move the sand that is not between the rocks.

Gyre only takes a few minutes to get going - which means it is more pump action
than gyre. No big surprise.

I think if I supplement that with some jets behind the rocks, I might have a good solution.

But I now need yet more relays...

 

[Mr. Ugly]

I've done a gyre across the short dimension with no problem. I had the powerheads at the back of the tank and aimed them down. That created an upwelling current to circulate crud out from under the rocks. Had about 6" per second flow rate, gauging by the speed of particulates in the gyre.

 

[rygh]

I've done a gyre across the short dimension with no problem. I had the powerheads at the back of the tank and aimed them down. That created an upwelling current to circulate crud out from under the rocks. Had about 6" per second flow rate, gauging by the speed of particulates in the gyre.

Interesting. Nice flow rate.
Did you have sand? Seems like it would dig a big hole instantly.
Although perhaps a bunch of small powerheads, and always aimed at a rock first.
Well, I can certainly try it in a few spots.

 

[rygh]

Quick update:
Finally seeing ammonia now, and water went cloudy. Tank really cycling.
I ended up adding a big handful of chopped up frozen shrimp a couple of days ago.
The dry-live-rock had been cleaned multiple times and soaked after concrete work, so was too clean to do much I guess.

It was funny, I had to really dig through the old buckets to find the ammonia/nitrite/ph tests.
Nicely expired, but hopefully good enough for checking cycling.
Err, probably should buy some new tests though.

Should be adding fish in February!
First fish in will probably be a school of 7 blue-green chromis, added toward end of cycling. (New purchase)
Then see how they do before moving anything over.
The theory being that they are pretty indestructible, so good for finalizing the cycle, plus I really like them.
Will be 11 total when added to current small school.

 

[tuberider]

The theory being that they are pretty indestructible, so good for finalizing the cycle, plus I really like them.
Will be 11 total when added to current small school.

Not necessarily, they are prone to getting bacterial infections and are skittish often causing damage that results in a bacterial infection. Also, chromis do not school they shoal, big difference.

 

[Coral reefer]

What is shoaling, I could look it up, but you know... I agree they aren't too indestructible as well

 

[rygh]

Well, they are damsels, relatively hardy, and beginner fish.
But yes, not really indestructible.
I guess I could add ruthlessly - if not indestructible - very cheap to replace.

They are generally not so skittish in a shoal.

BTW: Not sure I agree with shoal/school. I know you are technically correct, but
my current "group" very often swims together in a fairly coordinated manner.
So I might put them somewhere in between.

From wikipedia:
"In biology, any group of fish that stay together for social reasons are said to be shoaling (pronounced /ˈʃoʊlɪŋ/), and if, in addition, the group is swimming in the same direction in a coordinated manner, they are said to be schooling (pronounced /ˈskuːlɪŋ/).[1] In common usage, the terms are sometimes used rather loosely."

 

[Mr. Ugly]

Quick update:
Finally seeing ammonia now, and water went cloudy. Tank really cycling.

I did a fishless cycle on a 90g. No fish, no chopped shrimp. Just dosed the tank with ammonium nitrate and turned the temp up to 90 degrees. Cycle was totally done in 2 weeks.

There are some notes on that on the old RC BAR forum and maybe here somewhere.

I walked Kinetic through the process for his tank.

 

[Mr. Ugly]

I've done a gyre across the short dimension with no problem. I had the powerheads at the back of the tank and aimed them down. That created an upwelling current to circulate crud out from under the rocks. Had about 6" per second flow rate, gauging by the speed of particulates in the gyre.

Interesting. Nice flow rate.
Did you have sand? Seems like it would dig a big hole instantly.
Although perhaps a bunch of small powerheads, and always aimed at a rock first.
Well, I can certainly try it in a few spots.

No sand. I was using MJ Mods.

 

[tuberider]

Well, they are damsels, relatively hardy, and beginner fish.
But yes, not really indestructible.
I guess I could add ruthlessly - if not indestructible - very cheap to replace.

Damsels come in many different shapes and sized in case you didn't know, they are all not blue devils. BTW, regarding the cheap to replace statement "BAR seeks to promote, foster and encourage education and appreciation for the ethical husbandry and propagation of marine life", money does not make an animal and that is an irresponsible statement.

They are generally not so skittish in a shoal.

Really? Is that personal observation or do you have anything to back that up?

BTW: Not sure I agree with shoal/school. I know you are technically correct, but
my current "group" very often swims together in a fairly coordinated manner.
So I might put them somewhere in between.

I'm glad I now can vacillate too.

In common usage, the terms are sometimes used rather loosely."

Yep, they sound like a Shoaling fish

 

[rygh]

BTW, regarding the cheap to replace statement "BAR seeks to promote, foster and encourage education and appreciation for the ethical husbandry and propagation of marine life", money does not make an animal and that is an irresponsible statement.

Agreed, guess I should not joke about that. You will note that I am doing a fish-less cycle.
Glad I did not mention tangs
Of course I am using frozen shrimp - so is that really all that much better??? :~

---------

They are generally not so skittish in a shoal.

Really? Is that personal observation or do you have anything to back that up?

1) Personal observation.
Activity differs based on number of chromis in the tank.
2) Science.
The main point of a shoal is for protection. Thus, when in a shoal, they are more protected, and thus
would feel better and be less skittish. Plus, being skittish (darting around like crazy), would ruin the organization
of the shoal, so a bit mutually exclusive.

--------

BTW: Not sure I agree with shoal/school. I know you are technically correct, but
my current "group" very often swims together in a fairly coordinated manner.
So I might put them somewhere in between.

I'm glad I now can vacillate too.

From wikipedia:
"In biology, any group of fish that stay together for social reasons are said to be shoaling (pronounced /ˈʃoʊlɪŋ/), and if, in addition, the group is swimming in the same direction in a coordinated manner, they are said to be schooling (pronounced /ˈskuːlɪŋ/).[1] In common usage, the terms are sometimes used rather loosely."

Yep, they sound like a Shoaling fish

Well, as above, they are exhibiting signs of schooling, by swimming in a coordinated manner.
So I still say it is in the gray area, and shoaling/schooling are rather arbitrary labels.

 

[rygh]

Back to flow issues:
I tried a power head pointed down, and it quickly dug a hole in the sand, so seems really only viable for a bare bottom tank.

That said, I think I will modify my sump return.
It currently comes out in two main jets, across the top of the water.
I think I will modify that, and make a long low-velocity spray-bar, pointed down, across most of the top-back of the tank.
That will get water moving behind a lot of the rock work, forcing crud out, and should be low enough velocity not to disturb sand.
The original return jets were meant to keep the surface turbulent, but I seem to get plenty of that from the power heads.

Plus, on a slightly related note: I am thinking of getting a bit of garf grunge +, and putting that along the very back,
mixed in with some rock rubble. Partly to help seed the tank with all sorts of fun things.
But also to allow for some areas with very coarse grains, for different life to develop.
Downside : It is clearly a detritus trap. But with above spray-bar pushing water at it, maybe not so bad.

 

[sfboarders]

I don't think blue green chromis are as hardy as the regular damsels. I've read when they're kept in large groups that they can kill each other. Also, like Jeremy mentioned they get some type of infection.

Don't be surprised if you see some of them missing. I had 2 in my tank and they were buddies swimming together. One day I noticed one of them was chilling at the bottom of the tank in a cave with some of his fin missing. Next day he disappeared.

 

[rygh]

I don't think blue green chromis are as hardy as the regular damsels.

Agreed. But I am not about to put a yellow tail damsel in my tank. :O

I've read when they're kept in large groups that they can kill each other.

I have read similar, except it was with small even numbered groups being the problem.

Don't be surprised if you see some of them missing. I had 2 in my tank and they were buddies swimming together. One day I noticed one of them was chilling at the bottom of the tank in a cave with some of his fin missing. Next day he disappeared.

Well, hope that does not happen.

To emphasize : The main reason I am adding a big shoal/school/aggregation is that I LIKE them.
They look nice, are very active, peaceful, and act as dither fish, making other fish more comfortable.
That they are a bit tougher simply makes them a good fish to add first, in case there are unexpected issues.

 

[ryanjiang]

Interesting to know about shoaling v.s. schooling.

So what are good choices of schooling fish in small/medium size reef tank? Is blue eye cardinal schooling fish? I want to get a group but they seem to be not as widely available as other cardinals.

Mark hope you don't mind my OT questions in your thread

 

[rygh]

Interesting to know about shoaling v.s. schooling.

So what are good choices of schooling fish in small/medium size reef tank? Is blue eye cardinal schooling fish? I want to get a group but they seem to be not as widely available as other cardinals.

Mark hope you don't mind my OT questions in your thread

No problem, and not really off topic, since fish choice is sort of an ongoing issue for me anyway.

I have read good things about those (aka Threadfin Cardinal) as shoaling fish.
Although some rumors that they do not ship well and need careful acclimation.
But I do not have any direct experience. Hopefully others do.
Not that colorful in my opinion though.

The other main choice I have heard about is Anthias. Not sure of exact ones that are best.
Again, no direct experience there.

 

[ryanjiang]

Yeah they are not colorful. Just seems to me that they are more swimming into same direction and keep team hierarchy better, I mean relatively. Of course I might be wrong.

 

[rygh]

Yeah they are not colorful. Just seems to me that they are more swimming into same direction and keep team hierarchy better, I mean relatively. Of course I might be wrong.

No idea.
I found a nice article on Anthias if you think of going that route.
http://www.suite101.com/content/hardiest-anthias-species-a54294