Seeding dead rock and more questions

[badbread]

So, in the near future I will be picking up a 28g JBJ HQI.

I have some Marco rock from a member I plan on using as well as some live rock from my current tank that I took out and left on my back porch for a few months to dry out.

So far I have heavily rinsed all this dead rock in a 5 gallon bucket in my bath tub. The "dead" rock is now in a 10 gallon tank at 78 degrees at 1.024, AC70 hang on with filter pad, a couple powerheads, etc.. just to blast the remaining debris off the rock and has been there for about 2 days.

What do I do now? I am going to do about a 50% water change tonight, should I go purchase some cured live rock at my LFS to seed this rock? How long until this rock is usable in the 28g? Should I expect a cycle even though the rock has been dry for a long time?

Thanks all!

 

[A_Lee]

I would go ahead and place the rock into your tank, then go to your LFS (or another reefer) to get some mature live rock. Add it into your tank to seed the other rocks. I know a couple folks who used 1/2 dead rock, and 1/2 live rock. You might want to give the rocks in the bucket a small whiff to see how they smell prior to throwing them into the tank, just in case.
I'd expect the worse, and get ready for a small cycle. If it does, I don't see it big deal, as it should pass quickly with some mature cured live rock in the tank as well.

 

[tuberider]

I really don't seed anymore myself, critters find their way into your tank though animal introductions. IME during a cycle if you add liverock to an otherwise non liverock tank there's a chance of introducing pest algae, which is compounded by any ammonia which algae loves for food. If you are concerned about coraline, don't, it will grow. If you start with live rock, unless it is from a well established tank, your cycle is drawn out due to die off of algae and microorganisms, esp. sponges.

 

[neyugn0w01]

Agree tuberider. I came to the realization that we tend to over think things in this hobby. I just recently setup a new tank and just added some dried rocks and a large piece of live rock. So far no problems and parameters are in check. Just make sure you do daily water changes for the first 2 weeks.

 

[badbread]

Correct me if wrong which I probably am since I am pretty strictly internet reef educated, but doesn't the rock need to have some form of bacteria or whatever it is present in order to convert the ammonia to nitrite and finally into nitrate?

I'm not concerned about coralline at all, it took months for any growth in my current tank and that's what Purple Up© is for, isn't it? (haha, kidding!)


Thanks again,
Jay


Also, OT:

I was thinking of doing a jawfish in this tank. I don't want to do a DSB and was going to construct one of those PVC jawfish homes. Anyone have experience with jawfish? If I do get one, I'll just need enough sand to cover the PVC I'm guessing.

** EDIT

Similar to this:
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=172053&hl=jawfish

 

[tuberider]

[quote author=badbread link=topic=4831.msg58788#msg58788 date=1223934923]
Correct me if wrong which I probably am since I am pretty strictly internet reef educated, but doesn't the rock need to have some form of bacteria or whatever it is present in order to convert the ammonia to nitrite and finally into nitrate?


[/quote]

You can speed the process up by adding bacteria, however the little guys are pretty ubiquitous, and are dormant on the rock, in the sand, the air, everywhere... ewwww grossss...

 

[A_Lee]

And here I was thinking that the nitrifying bacteria magically appeared in our tanks

 

[Elite]

99% were dead rocks... 99% dead sand...

If this is a new tank, put it together and toss a small piece of raw shrimp in there. Wait for couple weeks to do a big WC and get a big ball of cheato from someone plus some live sand. Toss them in and wait for the cycle to finish. Took a long time to cycle but if you are in no rush, you should be fine...

 

[A_Lee]

Beautiful tank Phong

 

[tapmorf]

jay,
Congrats on the larger tank.
I started my tank out with a jawfish about a year ago with a DSB, and when you think he has found a home that he stays in for a good time, to this day he still digs up holes while moving large amounts of sand. I have him to thank for the interesting ever changing sandscape.
That looks like a good idea for the home, but don't be surprised if he digs right next to the PVC tube or any space under any rock.

 

[badbread]

Thanks Joyce, I was only going to do about 2" of sand, kind of banking on the success of others having jawfish like their PVC home.

On that note, what kind of sand should I use for this tank? In my current tank I used this:

Is there something else I should be using?

 

[pixelpixi]

Jim sold me some coarser crushed coral sand when I was setting up my tank because I wanted to keep a jawfish. I've liked it and I recommend it if he still has it or something similar.

Why only 2" though? Worried about loosing depth or other concerns with DSB?

 

[tapmorf]

I think I used the same stuff as the pic you posted for the majority of the sand, but I threw in some coral rubble since the jawfish constructs their burrows with larger pieces.

 

[iani]

One thing to note bleach (or oxyclean per Jeremy) your dead rock out before starting your tank. It will get rid of all the organics and will quicken the cycle.

 

[badbread]

Well, I got 30 pounds of Aragonite for the tank... I was reading somewhere (can't remember where) that if your going to do a DSB you need something like 6"+ and need to stir the sand bed, etc... and if not going 6"+ then just do enough to cover the bottom.

On the bleaching of the rock, how much bleach in a 5 gallon bucket and for how long? And after that, I'm guessing some serious soaking/rinsing is in order?

And back to the sand, sand is in the tank now, I rinsed it A LOT, like a real lot in a 5 gallon bucket and the bath tub. Now I'm just waiting for my RO/DI to catch up to fill this bad boy up.

Thanks all!

 

[LeviT]

.... not sure but I think rinsing live sand defeats the purpose of paying extra for live sand..... any comments on that?

Here are the (slightly altered) oxi-clean instructions from Jeremy
[quote author=tuberider]
Add rock ixi-clean and hot water to your container. It should foam up like crazy at first, if it stops foaming before the rocks are clean, you may need to add a little more. Make sure the rocks stay in the bath for at least 12hrs, and when finished give them a good rinse. If they're not up to your standards then you may need to do a second soak, it depends how impacted the pores on the rocks are.

BTW, no need to use boiling water, although I can't imagine it would hurt, and the Oxy clean might work a little better. Also, if your using a Brute, don't worry about the boiling water, they are NSF and can handle it.
[/quote]

 

[A_Lee]

I agree. Giving the sand a thorough rinse in freshwater may significantly lower the population of any nitrifying bacteria. I'd imagine boiling water would just kill anything and everything (except aiptasia ) Unless the sand grain size you're getting is absolutely super hard to find elsewhere, it may not be worth paying extra for live sand when you're going to make it dead sand again.

 

[pixelpixi]

[quote author=badbread link=topic=4831.msg59022#msg59022 date=1224059393]
Well, I got 30 pounds of Aragonite for the tank... I was reading somewhere (can't remember where) that if your going to do a DSB you need something like 6"+ and need to stir the sand bed, etc... and if not going 6"+ then just do enough to cover the bottom.
[/quote]

You can do any depth of sand. 3" or 4" is fine. You may not get as much nitrification/denitrification as you would with a thicker sand bed, but you'll get some. You definitely DO NOT want to stir a deep sand bed. That can potentially disrupt the bacteria in it and cause a mini cycle. At most with a deep sand bed you want to siphon off the very top, disrupting only the top inch or so.

 

[badbread]

I used a dry bag of Carib-sea Aragonite, the wet stuff is what I used in my last tank. I don't think the dry stuff has any bacteria, does it?

I probably have a 2"-3" sand bed with just 30 lbs of sand. It seems like there are many schools of thought on DSB's, like one of those ongoing debates on what to do and what not to do, I just figure if there isn't a definitive answer on it, it's not for me.

This tank came with a 5 gallon bucket full of live rock fresh from the tank it was in (probably 30 lbs.), I did my best to keep it covered thinking I would using it as is in the tank. I inspected it carefully and found a bunch of green bubble algae and what looked to be aiptasia.

Whats the best way to kill this rock and clean it up? It's different than the dry rock I have because it is full of a bunch of macro algae's, corraline, etc... Should I do the same with oxy-clean to clean this really live rock up?

Thanks yet again for all your help!

 

[badbread]

So I oxicleaned the "live" rock last night as soon as I got home, it was foaming like crazy and all sorts of nasty stuff was floating to the top of the bucket. Before bed I checked on it and it had stopped foaming, I rinsed the bucket out and all of my rocks were green.

So before bed I did it again, hot water in a 5 gallon bucket full of rocks. This time I added 2-3 scoops of oxiclean. This morning the water was super green, and the top of the bucket had dried up nasty foam all over the place.

Now what? I'm pretty sure everything on the rock is dead and clean but my rocks are green. (Nice rhyme there!)

Should I bleach the rocks now or is the oxiclean suppose to do that?