Solar?

[Piper]

I think I've read here and there on the forum that a few people here are using solar or at least looked into it. We've been toying around with this for about a year now and have looked into both leasing the power only (they put the panels up and we buy power from the solar co. instead of PG&E*) and outright purchasing the system.

Right now we're leaning towards purchasing and going with Energy Savers. I'd just like to know if any of you went solar and, if so, to what extent (i.e. 95% replaced PG&G vs. 40%-50% replacing PG&G) and what your unbiased thoughts are.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[sfsuphysics]

Well I'm assuming you own the home and it will be a long term life there, otherwise don't think about it

First need to ask, are you doing this to "go green" or for a lower bill? (or both ).

Need to first look at your PG&E bill, or online, see how much power you use, what sort of tier rating your highest usage is, this is where any savings begins because this is the first area that you'll supplement power from. Also check into whether or not there's still a solar tax credit for federal taxes, and one next year too because remember if it runs out next year, and your panels pass inspection by next year you're screwed. California's rebate by regard is tiny, but it's still something.

Also, don't make a decision to go with any company without getting a bunch of quotes from various other companies, there's quite a few in the bay area and yeah they will drive all over the place to get those tasty contracts

Oh yeah and I do have solar, 3.26kW worth. Can't say what percentage that is, it's far from being most, but it does knock away some (plus I had advantage of super good San Francisco incentives to the tune of about $11k). For me the fish tank is the #1 energy hog, no AC, and heating is gas powered. But I do notice when the weather drops as it did this winter, my electrical usage goes through the roof just to keep that tank warm (who knows maybe by next year I'll finis..e r start my inwall project ), about $100 or so. However in the summer time, my electrical usage can easily be in the low teens (if I remember correctly)

 

[rygh]

We installed solar water heating on the pool, and plan to install solar electricity probably in the fall.
Not sure which vendor we will use though. Possibly Diablo Solar.

In my opinion, the key thing is to get into the lower tier cost.
The rates are VERY non-linear. The first N kilowatt hours are cheap. After that, it gets
expensive fast. So buying solar to get to 0% from PGE is a waste.
That percentage will depend on your usage.
Basically, look at how much you use above that lower tier, and cover that with solar.

Another opinion : Gas is generally cheaper than solar electricity.
A big part of our bill is heating the tank.
It appears to me that switching to a gas heater is more cost effective
than adding solar that drives an electric heater.
Of course - gas is not as "green".
Alternately, consider a solar hot water heater. Way cheaper than cells.

 

[aqua-nut]

We went solar in October of '07. 4KW system, IIRC. Love it!

We haven't paid any PG&E electrical since! We used to pay about $2500/yr to PG&E. We don't have AC and heat with gas. When the new reef tank gets setup we might have to send a few $$ to PG&E.

All of sfsuphysics's comments are valid.

We paid, after rebates and tax refunds/credits, about $12k. Perhaps it's cheaper now? I don't know what the rebate/tax situation is now. Probably not as good as 'way back then'.

Access to the sun (no shadows) is important to the efficiency of the system. So is the local climate. I'm in Santa Rosa. Not many foggy days. In the summer the overcast burns off about the time the sun gets to the panels. Good south exposure is needed for max output.

 

[Piper]

Well I'm assuming you own the home and it will be a long term life there, otherwise don't think about it

Yep, we own. We'll be here at least 5 years more likely 10+

First need to ask, are you doing this to "go green" or for a lower bill? (or both ).

Mostly to lower the PG&E bill. I'd like to think we're green, and in some ways we are, but I still use gas powered lawn equipment and drive a less than fuel efficient truck. I'm not fooling anyone but myself if I say it's because I want to go green

Need to first look at your PG&E bill, or online, see how much power you use, what sort of tier rating your highest usage is, this is where any savings begins because this is the first area that you'll supplement power from. Also check into whether or not there's still a solar tax credit for federal taxes, and one next year too because remember if it runs out next year, and your panels pass inspection by next year you're screwed. California's rebate by regard is tiny, but it's still something.

We did do that. Going on the quote to purchase we'd actually be paying a little more per month on average for the first year but we have the option to roll that tax credit we get next year into the loan to lower the monthly payment then we'd be ahead of the game. It would take us ~2 years to break even then every year after that it's save us about $800/yr. assuming no rate hikes from PG&E. Rebates are all still in place and we should be covered there.

Also, don't make a decision to go with any company without getting a bunch of quotes from various other companies, there's quite a few in the bay area and yeah they will drive all over the place to get those tasty contracts

Good point. I've only got the one quote to purchase vs. several to lease the power. I'll call around to a few more places to get quotes.

Oh yeah and I do have solar, 3.26kW worth.

Is that AC or DC output? I understand that you have some power loss going through the inverter. We were looking at 4.3kW AC after passing through the inverter. I think at least

Thank you very much for your feedback. I have yet to talk to someone that wasn't happy with solar. I think as long as we're not trying to go off grid and completely replace PG&G this makes good money sense to switch. PG&E is only going up from here

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[Piper]

In my opinion, the key thing is to get into the lower tier cost.
The rates are VERY non-linear. The first N kilowatt hours are cheap. After that, it gets
expensive fast. So buying solar to get to 0% from PGE is a waste.
That percentage will depend on your usage.
Basically, look at how much you use above that lower tier, and cover that with solar.

Yes, we'd still be getting some of our juice from PG&G and mostly staying in T1 where the cheap rates are.

Another opinion : Gas is generally cheaper than solar electricity.
A big part of our bill is heating the tank.
It appears to me that switching to a gas heater is more cost effective
than adding solar that drives an electric heater.
Of course - gas is not as "green".
Alternately, consider a solar hot water heater. Way cheaper than cells.

This was a bad winter to get that data on my tank. It was the first year it was up and running and we had a very mild winter. I didn't have much of a problem heating the tank so far. I just finished my canopy and my temp did bump up a degree to 79 so I am a bit worried about keeping it cool in the summer!

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[Coral reefer]

Using fans to speed up evaporation Is a good cheap way to cool

 

[Piper]

We paid, after rebates and tax refunds/credits, about $12k. Perhaps it's cheaper now? I don't know what the rebate/tax situation is now. Probably not as good as 'way back then'.

The systems we've looked at so far are between $20k and $30K to purchase outright not including any rebates and incentives. The one we're pretty much set on is going to come out to about $20k after rebates and incentives. We just won't see most of the difference till we get our tax rebate next year. The financing package gives us a one time shot to roll that into the loan and reduce the payment for the remainder of the loan. That's when we'd start coming out ahead of the game vs. what we're paying now.

Access to the sun (no shadows) is important to the efficiency of the system. So is the local climate. I'm in Santa Rosa. Not many foggy days. In the summer the overcast burns off about the time the sun gets to the panels. Good south exposure is needed for max output.

We're good there. The roof slope faces almost perfectly south and we have one small tree (right now at least) that *might* cause a problem down the road. They can install the panels far enough towards the back of the house that if the tree does get tall it still won't affect the panels too much.

On top of that we're in Oakley and the only thing weather-wise we get besides heat is wind. Maybe I'll put up a windmill too

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[Piper]

Using fans to speed up evaporation Is a good cheap way to cool

Mike - I'm going to have to do something soon. The tank was bouncing between 77 and 78 with the top open and now it's between 78 to 79 with the canopy on and the house will definitely get hotter during the day as we get into summer. I'll start a new post in the Equipment forum because I have a few questions on this.

 

[aqua-nut]

On top of that we're in Oakley and the only thing weather-wise we get besides heat is wind. Maybe I'll put up a windmill too

Not a bad idea. There are windmills that look like a mixer blade and not like a propeller. Small visual impact, lots of power.

 

[Kensington Reefer]

Charlie
I have evap cooling idea for you

 

[Coral reefer]

Where do Iearn more about said windmills please?

 

[sfsuphysics]

Where do Iearn more about said windmills please?

There's a guy on Burrows right across from McLaren park that has a tiny windmill on his roof, also has a hodge podge of what looks like various solar panels up there too (some might be solar water heating).

I thought about tossing a windmill on my roof, did a some research and found that its not any where as economically viable as solar, even up here on the hill.

 

[Coral reefer]

Good to know you looked at it, thanks! Although I may get even more wind than you being that extra couple blocks higher, lol

 

[rygh]

Where do Iearn more about said windmills please?

There's a guy on Burrows right across from McLaren park that has a tiny windmill on his roof, also has a hodge podge of what looks like various solar panels up there too (some might be solar water heating).

I thought about tossing a windmill on my roof, did a some research and found that its not any where as economically viable as solar, even up here on the hill.

Yeah, I looked at that also. Generally agree for normal residential.
But if you can put a big one with 12 foot blades on a 50 foot pole, and share with your neighbors....
It is one of those things that just does not work small scale.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Oh yeah and I do have solar, 3.26kW worth.

Is that AC or DC output? I understand that you have some power loss going through the inverter. We were looking at 4.3kW AC after passing through the inverter. I think at least

I think that's DC power, basically what it translates to is on a nice sunny day about 24 kWh per day of power produced, Which might not sound like much, but considering I live in San Francisco and we get screwed three ways to Sunday on power (I think we're allowed a baseline of about 11kWh, compared to other parts of the bay that "need A/C" and get almost double that), it does it's job of keeping me out of higher tiers.

As to different companies, Lumenalt is the one I went with, they're a local SF company but probably would do other areas, Gro Solar was another that had a comparable bid, stay away from Sungevity they won't stop sending you spam emails even after you tell them you already have solar installed. I would have actually done this myself, but the paper work alone to get all my rebates made me stay away

 

[sfsuphysics]

Yeah big if there. I don't even want to think about the city regulations to install one of them though.

 

[scuba71]

I went with a company in Campbell called ProVoltz who installed SunPower panels. The reason I went with SunPower is for three reasons. Efficiency, quality and a stellar deal. The program that I went for was an outright buy, but with a lease term. The best of both worlds and I saved big. At any rate, I went for an 8.6 kWh DC system. I am planing on putting in a pool later this summer and of course upgrading my tank. .

It's so awesome to see my meter going backwards during the day. It's one of the best investments I've made yet.

Any case, if you give ProVoltz a call, ask for a guy named Ash, and tell him Monzer sent you. He will give you the best deal there is. I am starting to sound like a salesman.