got ethical husbandry?

Some of my euphilias are desintegrating

Are you talking about this? It looks like a euphilliya eating flatworm
Theres your reason, Euphyllia eatting polyclad flat worms. Looks for eggs these will wipe out your Euphyllia, they love to crawl in mouth and devour it. It a bit if both bacterial infection and flatworms that’s hitting it, both worst case scenario for Euphyllia keepers
 
Theres your reason, Euphyllia eatting polyclad flat worms. Looks for eggs these will wipe out your Euphyllia, they love to crawl in mouth and devour it. It a bit if both bacterial infection and flatworms that’s hitting it, both worst case scenario for Euphyllia keepers
How can you tell?
 
How can you tell?
Planaria flat worms- doesn’t eat the coral but can suffocate coral and irritate the coral.
Removal I prefer manual dip rather than flatworm exist and wrasses. A lot of work but worth it in the end more effective. I manual remove by pipette and dips, any that I see I would take out( a lot of work but bettter than leaving them inside to reproduce) they reproduce crazy fast. Brush off the eggs usually on skeleton or flesh. If on flesh remove but dip in iodine to help flesh heal.
476CF39A-36A5-4556-86C3-8D8FBBDED4E9.jpeg


Polyclad Euphyllia Flat worms- are the worst, some can eat snails but mainly go after Euphyllia, they go buffet on Euphyllias flesh then dive right into the mouth of the Euphyllia, usually start off with one or two in a tank and devastate your whole Euphyllia quickly, these love to lay eggs on the flesh tissue or skeleton. They can hide in the rocks too. flatworm exist won’t kill them, only manual dipping and removal of the eggs works. Putting all your Euphyllia in a qt tank will have too. Having/buying wrasses doesn’t help with the cleanup because some don’t even go after polyclad flatworms only planarias.

How I deal with Euphyllia eatting flat worms is to check for eggs whenever I get Euphyllias mainly torches for me, if any eggs i would brush with toothbrush til all gone, if eggs on flesh still brush but dip in iodine afterwards to help with flesh. I would place in frag rack to monitor it in couple days inspect again for any eggs and flatworms 2-3 times a week.
Place all Euphyllia on racks and dips every 2-3 days for 1 month or more if you want. Swirl and blast the Euphyllia gently to remove them from the flesh or tentacles. Dips 5-10minutes.
I currently use CoralRX dip, works great can even melt the Euphyllia flatworms sometimes but usually sting them so they float off the Euphyllia.
I’ve only encounter them couple times keeping Euphyllia,

C74886C7-6F3A-4BB6-A54A-B34B5F843FFC.jpeg


I find that bacterial infection in Euphyllia usually start with stress, when the coral is stress they are easily prone. Such as swings of parameters and being attacked by flatworms. I use CIPROFLOXACIN. I put a full pill 500mg into 50 ml of rodi water and mix well. The container must be dark and block all incoming light because cipro degrades under light, stored in refrigerator
Calculate how much to dose
(Amount tank water in liters) multiple by (.125) divide by 10. In mL.
This achieve the 0.125 mg / L that is safe to use with minimal affect on bioload.

for example
284 liters x .125 divide 10= 3.55 mL
Dose 6 day either every other day when lights off or every night for 6 days straight if you want to hit em hard.
*****Be aware chance of developing resistance bacteria, but I haven’t found any issue.

Main source I got for cipro


Pictures when I encounter them easy removal.
DABFF5D6-9E5C-4605-84B8-C6402BEB198A.jpeg
83267441-E347-4902-A654-CAF385A05EE5.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I have jet lagged so I’m up 2 in the morning in Vietnam writing it out. This is what I would do if I had your problem. Start with the flat worms first identify that they are planaria or Euphyllia eatting ones.
 
Last edited:
Looks like you confirmed that worms didn’t fall off in a dip, so that’s likely not the problem - when I brought a euphyllia home with euphyllia eating flatworms they were clear and difficult to see on the coral but about 6-10 fell off visibly in a dip. Also, even if you find 2 worms on a coral, that’s probably not what’s wiping them out - if you find 50 on one head them maybe.

The only thing I can think of is one of your fish or inverts got hungry while you were away. Did your auto feeder work well while you were away?
 
A caveat- I haven’t seen evidence that the Aquabiomics tankwide Cipro works long term - I don’t know of any long term follow up (I think Aquabiomics reps said in their Humblefish talk that they tore down the system they treated before knowing if the result was long lasting) and they haven’t followed up with any long term studies that I know of. It’s possible seeing the bacteria count go down in the water column as a result of whole-system AB treatment doesn’t guarantee euphyllia can’t remain infected internally, with symptoms coming back a few months later after ceasing ABs. It seems to be a temporary relief treatment but isn’t always strong enough to fully treat the sickest euphyllia the way a targeted QT/ dip would.

At the risk of a very long post, to add context, I also hybridize roses from time to time - when you grow roses from seed you don’t know what kind of immune system the new roses will end up with. About 90% of the new roses will not be adequately pathogen resistant for use in an organic garden were no chemicals are allowed to prevent powdery mildew, black spot, rust, and other rose pathogens. So these roses with poor immunity need to be culled because they will harbor pathogens that will continuously reinfect roses around it.

I thought about this when I tried the Aquabiomics treatment. I noticed the euphyllia funk would always come back after 2 to 6 months until I removed the sickest looking hammer, and suddenly all the other euphyllia returned to health. This sickly hammer was in a tank crash before I got it and might have been damaged and lost its resistance and developed a deep infection, who knows. I gave it to
@NanoCrazed who finally cured that thing with his targeted full-strength dips, at least the last I heard it had been symptom free for over a year. In talking with Aquabiomics they surmise perhaps some “deep infections” need targeted treatment. I would credit the tank wide treatment for buying time to identify the sick hammer but if it ever happened again I’d do targeted dips.

 
A caveat- I haven’t seen evidence that the Aquabiomics tankwide Cipro works long term - I don’t know of any long term follow up (I think Aquabiomics reps said in their Humblefish talk that they tore down the system they treated before knowing if the result was long lasting) and they haven’t followed up with any long term studies that I know of. It’s possible seeing the bacteria count go down in the water column as a result of whole-system AB treatment doesn’t guarantee euphyllia can’t remain infected internally, with symptoms coming back a few months later after ceasing ABs. It seems to be a temporary relief treatment but isn’t always strong enough to fully treat the sickest euphyllia the way a targeted QT/ dip would.

At the risk of a very long post, to add context, I also hybridize roses from time to time - when you grow roses from seed you don’t know what kind of immune system the new roses will end up with. About 90% of the new roses will not be adequately pathogen resistant for use in an organic garden were no chemicals are allowed to prevent powdery mildew, black spot, rust, and other rose pathogens. So these roses with poor immunity need to be culled because they will harbor pathogens that will continuously reinfect roses around it.

I thought about this when I tried the Aquabiomics treatment. I noticed the euphyllia funk would always come back after 2 to 6 months until I removed the sickest looking hammer, and suddenly all the other euphyllia returned to health. This sickly hammer was in a tank crash before I got it and might have been damaged and lost its resistance and developed a deep infection, who knows. I gave it to
@NanoCrazed who finally cured that thing with his targeted full-strength dips, at least the last I heard it had been symptom free for over a year. In talking with Aquabiomics they surmise perhaps some “deep infections” need targeted treatment. I would credit the tank wide treatment for buying time to identify the sick hammer but if it ever happened again I’d do targeted dips.

I think we’ve trained ourselves to also think that bad bacteria that affects our torches can only come with other Euphyllia. I personally think that other coral or even livestock could introduce the potentially “bad” bacteria. So unless it’s a closed system where nothing is added, it’s hard to make that call that it’s dormant bacteria or if it was bacteria from something that was recently added. Unfortunately for us, there’s probably not enough money involved to get someone to fund real research to get the correct answer.
 
I think we’ve trained ourselves to also think that bad bacteria that affects our torches can only come with other Euphyllia. I personally think that other coral or even livestock could introduce the potentially “bad” bacteria. So unless it’s a closed system where nothing is added, it’s hard to make that call that it’s dormant bacteria or if it was bacteria from something that was recently added. Unfortunately for us, there’s probably not enough money involved to get someone to fund real research to get the correct answer.
Yea I think you're right, once you get a 'funk' in a tank it can start showing as white areas/bacteria infections on acros etc.
 
OK So my corals are doing better but I still see issues but not as much.
I finally receive my water test results. I also did an RO Water test.
 

Attachments

  • Analyse227434.pdf
    19.9 KB · Views: 163
  • RO Water Analyse228617.pdf
    18.9 KB · Views: 143
RO water looks pretty clean, just a little silica which is fine for getting some diatom growth.

The salt water tests are interesting. I'm not sure how accurate their calculated salinity value is, but if it's real, you're running something like 32PPT vs. 35. The sodium and chloride ratios are off slightly too, are you dosing something more chloride based and out of ionic balance like MgCl only vs. MgCl + MgSO4?
 
RO water looks pretty clean, just a little silica which is fine for getting some diatom growth.

The salt water tests are interesting. I'm not sure how accurate their calculated salinity value is, but if it's real, you're running something like 32PPT vs. 35. The sodium and chloride ratios are off slightly too, are you dosing something more chloride based and out of ionic balance like MgCl only vs. MgCl + MgSO4?
+1 on mixing MgCl+MgS but also doing regular water changes will help prevent the Na/Cl imbalance from dosing 2-part.

However, your iodine is 226ug/l? I don't trust ICP tests to be always accurate, but do you think that's possible - how much iodine have you been dosing? Or how much Fuel/Flatworm Stop or other iodine-containing supplements are you using? High iodine could be a culprit. Red Sea's iodine dosing instructions: "Halogens can have adverse effects on the soft tissues of corals and all micro-fauna. Common indication of overdose is a severe regression of the soft tissues of hard corals and pale colors in soft corals."
 
So I am dipping some hammers for like 15-30 min in iodine and Cipro for about 15 to 30 min twice a day and I don't rinse them after and I just add them back into the tank. I did add some iodide over the time and did not run the skimmer.
I did dose only Epsom Salt (MgS) to increase Mg lvls because I did not have the other type of Mg, I need to get some MgCl, did not see somebody that sells in smaller quantities.

I did dose Cipro for about 5 doses. I see no new hammers that are losing flesh just the ones that already started.

I'll see what will happen next.
 
How I managed to stop the loss of my Euphilias, and torches
I also lost some torches. In the beginning it was only hammers but then it attacked the torches as well.

Here is what I did to get rid of the issues:
1. Did Cipro dosing for 5 days every day, I dissolved half a pill of 500mg.
2. I stopped the UV and the skimmer while doing this
3. Added an extra air stone to get more oxygen in the tank.
4. After the 5 days I did a Chemi Clean treatment because Cipro probably killed most of the good and bad bacteria, and started to see some cyano, I had some before but it got a bit more after the treatment.
5. I left Chemi Clean in the tank for about 3 days.
6. After everything I like 20% water change.
7. I've been dosing Macro Bactor 7 for like 1 week to get good bacteria back in the system.

My entire system with sump and frag tank attached is about 160 gallons I think. So half of 500 mg pill was used for this.

I did not lose any more corals and managed do save the ones that started to be infected byy doing 3 baths of iodine dip every day. I did see some dino after the Cipro dosing that is why I also did the Chemi Clean.
 
Last edited:
I also lost some torches. In the beginning it was only hammers but then it attacked the torches as well.

Here is what I did to get rid of the issues:
1. Did Cipro dosing for 5 days every day, I dissolved half a pill of 500mg.
2. I stopped the UV and the skimmer while doing this
3. Added an extra air stone to get more oxygen in the tank.
4. After the 5 days I did a Chemi Clean treatment because Cipro probably killed most of the good and bad bacteria, and started to see some cyano, I had some before but it got a bit more after the treatment.
5. I left Chemi Clean in the tank for about 3 days.
6. After everything I like 20% water change.
7. I've been dosing Macro Bactor 7 for like 1 week to get good bacteria back in the system.

My entire system with sump and frag tank attached is about 160 gallons I think. So half of 500 mg pill was used for this.

I did not lose any corals. I did see some dino after the Cipro dosing that is why I also did the Chemi Clean.
Was this successful?
 
Back
Top