Suggestions for an Even Better Frag Swap

[bluprntguy]

There has been a good discussion on the "what are you bringing to the frag swap" thread about ways we can improve future frag swaps.

If you've already posted in the other thread, if you could summarize your comments again here, it will help keep everything in one place.

 

[tr1gger]

Bonus rounds for premium corals and bring back the raffles.

 

[HiFidelity]

very well, I'll throw my hat in the ring

-Clear and concise instructions for the registration crew: ie; scrutiny of incoming frags and labeling, clarifying and explaining to people what is required for them to enter the swap and those who don't meet the requirements can only act as "visitors" in reality this doesn't happen because other members will come forward & donate frags to someone new. Frankly I'm all for that, I offered frags to a member who simply didn't know what to bring because they had just started their tank fresh, another member ended up giving him 3 frags. Also if a group shows up with the person who is partaking in the event, only the person who is entering frags can enter the swap, not to say that if a spouse comes along you can't bring 6 frags, 3 for you & 3 for your spouse, child, relative or significant other. All others are observing guests.

-Encouraging new comers to ask for frags, I feel that we should help our new membership by giving them frags prior to frag swap so they can have first hand experience looking after their entry frags and recognizing what is acceptable and what is not before they walk through the door the day of. This also gives them a chance to interact with more experienced reefers who can also aid in educating them on propagation and fragging corals. There is nothing constructive to the experience of a new reefer to buy a bunch of frags and then take home new ones from the swap. Clearly the objective of our swaps is not simply a means for people to acquire new frags, I often explain to people that our frag swaps are a way to encourage aquaculture and preservation of these animals.

-NO PREVIEWS, nothing wrong with people walking around looking at frags but this can cause the first group or two to know what is on the tables and where, they don't have to even do this intentionally or selfishly, if you've walked around and seen something, it's likely to be exactly where you saw it when your group is called. Unfair to remaining groups.

-No label, no entry, again this is a registration table responsiblity (I'll admit I volunteered & I should have done a better job myself), there are plenty of folks walking around who are more than capable of IDing just about any coral, we provide labels, containers, markers, etc. so I feel that there is no excuse to have "unkown bla bla" or "SPS" or "Acro" on a dozen frags with no other info whatsoever. I don't think this is too much or unreasonable, we should be able to look at the label and know what we are looking at instead of spending 30 seconds staring at closed polyps trying to figure out what might or might not be in that container. It took me 15 minutes to snap some photos and another 10 to post a "coral ID" thread because I'm a complete idiot when it comes to naming corals

-I heard we can't have raffles due to a logistics issue? maybe one of us can volunteer to hit the pavement and follow whatever paperwork or procedure needed to make it happen.

-Auctions, this is a revenue generator for the club no? so I don't see why we shouldn't try to get the highest number of bids possible, so perhaps dedicate 15 minutes to the auction with clear announcements letting people know auction will end at such & such time and whether the swap gets put on pause or waiting till the end of the swap to do this makes a lot of sense. Raffles always took place after the swap and they were always fun & very exciting, I don't see why the auctions can't be the same.

I'll stop there for now lol, others have great ideas too I'm sure they'll be in here soon adding to the list.

 

[bluprntguy]

Silent Auction v. Raffle: So I'll go out on a limb and say that I think I like the silent auction better than the idea of the raffles. With the auction you have a bit more control - if you really want something then you just have to outbid the other people. You also only have to pay up when you win the bid. It seems like people still got some pretty sweet deals on the corals, fish and equipment that was donated. With a raffle it would be entirely possible to spend $20 (or more) and walk away with nothing. I'm not sure which one nets more money for the club.

Previews: I've been in the latter groups for the last few swaps, but I still don't understand the objection to previewing the coral before the swap. If you don't have a chance to preview things, then people are going to run out of time and just grab something that is valuable even though they may not want it or it may not be appropriate in their tanks. Preview allows everyone the chance to see what corals are there and get a game plan for corals that they are interested in keeping in their tanks.

Check-in/Group Selection: The process of picking groups has always seemed wacky to me. Why do you draw a letter and then put it back in the bucket? This results in some groups that have little or no people in them and then some that have too many. If we know how many people are pre-registered then the bucket should have that many letters in it spread evenly over the groups. You should draw a letter and then it should be taken out. I like the idea of just drawing a name tag that has been pre-printed with a group letter that someone on the other board mentioned.

Labeling and Containers: It's impossible to see what's inside most containers and most people use really small containers. Can't the club just provide suitably sized deli-containers at the swap since they are so cheap in bulk? I'd also suggest that it might be easier if we let people label 8.5x11 sheets of paper with the coral name and other information. The deli container can just be set on the piece of paper and the top can be left off until the coral is claimed so that everyone can see what is inside. This probably has less likelihood of spills than the current method where everyone is opening containers to see what's inside. Also, the corals would stay in one designated place until they are claimed which might help eliminate some of the concern regarding the previews and the questions that we had about people "reserving" corals by holding onto them while they continued to look.

Size and Quality: There were some pretty tiny frags at the swap and quite a few looked like they had been fragged 5 minutes before the swap started. I like the idea of voting on some awards before the swap to encourage people to bring some nice frags. Not sure what you could give as prizes, but "biggest frag", "most frags brought", "healthiest frag", "most encrusted frag" etc might encourage members to up their game.

"Exceptional Frags/Bonus Round": I did a quick search on frag swap rules and there are a few clubs that give out tickets or priority grouping if you bring rare or otherwise "exceptional" corals. I'm a bit torn on this idea. On one hand, it may encourage people to bring nicer corals to the swap, on the other hand it might mean there is less of an opportunity for other people to get these corals into their tanks. Interested to hear what others think of this.

 

[saltwatersig]

I agree with Dan (trigger) , The last few bigger frag swaps I've attended had both bonus rounds for premium corals and some pretty big raffle prizes .

I understand that raffles are out the question as of now but in the past ....we have not had any elite/premium frags entry for bonus rounds of sorts because some people would get greedy and join the club for an opportunity to bring 3 regular frags and pick up higher end ones. Seems pretty fair at the other events as they require 3 ultra/elite frags to get one bonus round pick (with a ratio of leaving 2 higher end frags for every one picked ) leaving 2 extra frags for the regular participants .

Maybe it still is something the club needs to think about but with the last couple of frag swaps I attended it seemed to be light on participants

Just my opinion

Sergio

 

[neuro]

Great suggestions fidel!

very well, I'll throw my hat in the ring
Also if a group shows up with the person who is partaking in the event, only the person who is entering frags can enter the swap, not to say that if a spouse comes along you can't bring 6 frags, 3 for you & 3 for your spouse, child, relative or significant other. All others are observing guests.

I want to add or clarify to what Fidel is saying here: anyone who is going to be entering the pick area should have had 3 frags and have paid.

Previews: I've been in the latter groups for the last few swaps, but I still don't understand the objection to previewing the coral before the swap. If you don't have a chance to preview things, then people are going to run out of time and just grab something that is valuable even though they may not want it or it may not be appropriate in their tanks. Preview allows everyone the chance to see what corals are there and get a game plan for corals that they are interested in keeping in their tanks.

I see your point, but I don't think everyone is going to be able to preview frags given the time constraints or totally didn't know they could do that. I think to be absolutely fair, is making sure everyone has had a chance to preview all the frags available up until the last minute.

Check-in/Group Selection: The process of picking groups has always seemed wacky to me. Why do you draw a letter and then put it back in the bucket? This results in some groups that have little or no people in them and then some that have too many. If we know how many people are pre-registered then the bucket should have that many letters in it spread evenly over the groups. You should draw a letter and then it should be taken out. I like the idea of just drawing a name tag that has been pre-printed with a group letter that someone on the other board mentioned.

We didn't put them back in the bucket. I do agree that we should have known how many people pre-registered to better handle the spread of the letters, but not sure how to handle people who registered at the venue. We should do this electronically if possible, since we're prone to errorring on shuffling the cards which I believe also played into the problem having more people in certain groups (like F and H I think in this case).

Labeling and Containers: It's impossible to see what's inside most containers and most people use really small containers. Can't the club just provide suitably sized deli-containers at the swap since they are so cheap in bulk? I'd also suggest that it might be easier if we let people label 8.5x11 sheets of paper with the coral name and other information. The deli container can just be set on the piece of paper and the top can be left off until the coral is claimed so that everyone can see what is inside. This probably has less likelihood of spills than the current method where everyone is opening containers to see what's inside. Also, the corals would stay in one designated place until they are claimed which might help eliminate some of the concern regarding the previews and the questions that we had about people "reserving" corals by holding onto them while they continued to look.

Totally agree. we should provide larger labels and containers next time. Though: someone brought deli-sized containers, and they were used. We go lucky on the labels also since a nice lady, who in fact wasn't a member, brought them in.

Size and Quality: There were some pretty tiny frags at the swap and quite a few looked like they had been fragged 5 minutes before the swap started. I like the idea of voting on some awards before the swap to encourage people to bring some nice frags. Not sure what you could give as prizes, but "biggest frag", "most frags brought", "healthiest frag", "most encrusted frag" etc might encourage members to up their game.

I personally handled frags that were super tiny. I would say smaller than a booger frags that R2R vendors are known for.

"Exceptional Frags": I did a quick search on frag swap rules and there are a few clubs that give out tickets or priority grouping if you bring rare or otherwise "exceptional" corals. I'm a bit torn on this idea. On one hand, it may encourage people to bring nicer corals to the swap, on the other hand it might mean there is less of an opportunity for other people to get these corals into their tanks. Interested to hear what others think of this.

@saltwatersig mentioned "bonus" rounds.. so I think maybe having a bonus round at the very beginning would help. This would definitely encourage me to come to future swaps if I were to bring in a high-calibre frag. It would be incredibly unfair if a beginner picked up a high-calibre frag only to see it die when they realized too late that they couldn't care for it--and to put salt to the wound, what if the person who brought the high calibre frag only picked up something common in exchange? I find that really unfair. Another issue is, how do we validate the frag is high calibre and isn't dying already? I think allowing BAR members-only to this bonus round might help ease that issue and to encourage memberships.

 

[HiFidelity]

Thanks for clarifying my confusing sentence Alfred lol...

Just curious, shouldn't we be utilizing DBTC more for "Premium Frags" after all our DBTC sub-forum activity has been near lethargic, the donor also gets to outline their own requirements and best of all it's Members only.

 

[saltwatersig]

@saltwatersig mentioned "bonus" rounds.. so I think maybe having a bonus round at the very beginning would help. This would definitely encourage me to come to future swaps if I were to bring in a high-calibre frag. It would be incredibly unfair if a beginner picked up a high-calibre frag only to see it die when they realized too late that they couldn't care for it--and to put salt to the wound, what if the person who brought the high calibre frag only picked up something common in exchange? I find that really unfair. Another issue is, how do we validate the frag is high calibre and isn't dying already? I think allowing BAR members-only to this bonus round might help ease that issue and to encourage memberships.

The other forums usually start a thread a month or so leading up to the swap with a list of what is considered "premium" corals and that list can be adjusted (more corals added ) with members posting pictures of their corals that they would like considered "premium. Usually there is a panel of 2 -3 members assigned to view and approve/disapprove coral entries . Combined with a "what corals are you bringing to the swap " thread will usually motivate others to bring some nicer corals .

 

[bluprntguy]

I agree with Dan (trigger) , The last few bigger frag swaps I've attended had both bonus rounds for premium corals and some pretty big raffle prizes.
Sergio

Was there a list published beforehand on what the a "premium" coral was, or was it just a determination made at the check-in table?

Edit: Nevermind, you answered the question already above! Do you happen to know where we can dig up a list from another club to use as a starting point?

 

[saltwatersig]

I will pm you the info

 

[yellojello]

Premium bonus rounds or BAR member only rounds might make non-members upset since they paid more for their registration. Need to figure out a balance.

Premium frags for bonus rounds and entry maybe can only be entered via picture of the frag posted online before one week advance to know they are not freshly cut, plus to sort out the premium coral and people list.

 

[Piper]

Previews: I've been in the latter groups for the last few swaps, but I still don't understand the objection to previewing the coral before the swap. If you don't have a chance to preview things, then people are going to run out of time and just grab something that is valuable even though they may not want it or it may not be appropriate in their tanks. Preview allows everyone the chance to see what corals are there and get a game plan for corals that they are interested in keeping in their tanks.

I'd rather see slightly longer round durations over previews. I think that puts those that are not good and identifying corals at a disadvantage. Just my opinion here; no hard data to back it up.

Check-in/Group Selection: The process of picking groups has always seemed wacky to me. Why do you draw a letter and then put it back in the bucket? This results in some groups that have little or no people in them and then some that have too many. If we know how many people are pre-registered then the bucket should have that many letters in it spread evenly over the groups. You should draw a letter and then it should be taken out. I like the idea of just drawing a name tag that has been pre-printed with a group letter that someone on the other board mentioned.

This has always been difficult to predict ahead of time. What we did this time was take the number of confirmed per-registered people and added roughly 10%. We did that to account for walk up registrations. We need to review that; maybe 10% isn't a good estimate here. (Do we have a final headcount on this swap vs. per-registered?) We used that number to come up with 8 groups.

Two things happened that made it very confusing for everyone. First, somehow I managed to get A-I in the bucket instead of A-H which gave us 9 groups. Second, I thought we had the software configured correctly for 8 groups but it somehow reverted back to the default of 10 groups. I'm sure that was O/E on my part but I certainly can't tell you how I managed that one.

I have started re-writing the software in Visual Basic and if we have any coders in the group I'd love some help with this. I'm a perl guy trying to hack my way through VB and if we have a VB expert on hand that would help to have a 2nd (or more) set of eyeballs on the code.

Aside from that, I really like the idea of having blank name tags in the bucket with groups pre-printed on them vs. the cards we use now. That's a very good idea and can possibly even speed up the registration process. Someone also mentioned making this electronic; that's not a bad idea either. We still have the hurdle of walk-up registrations to account for though.

Labeling and Containers: It's impossible to see what's inside most containers and most people use really small containers. Can't the club just provide suitably sized deli-containers at the swap since they are so cheap in bulk? I'd also suggest that it might be easier if we let people label 8.5x11 sheets of paper with the coral name and other information. The deli container can just be set on the piece of paper and the top can be left off until the coral is claimed so that everyone can see what is inside. This probably has less likelihood of spills than the current method where everyone is opening containers to see what's inside. Also, the corals would stay in one designated place until they are claimed which might help eliminate some of the concern regarding the previews and the questions that we had about people "reserving" corals by holding onto them while they continued to look.

Size and Quality: There were some pretty tiny frags at the swap and quite a few looked like they had been fragged 5 minutes before the swap started. I like the idea of voting on some awards before the swap to encourage people to bring some nice frags. Not sure what you could give as prizes, but "biggest frag", "most frags brought", "healthiest frag", "most encrusted frag" etc might encourage members to up their game.

Someone mentioned above that clear and concise instructions for the check-in volunteers was needed. I agree and I should have put something together on this already. I will make sure that is done soon so that we have it handy for all future swaps. I think that will help dramatically in this area if the volunteers know precisely what they need to do and check for. In fact, we need to split this section up a little in the volunteer threads going forward but I'll outline that more in the swap template.

Without flipping back to the main thread I think that this was all covered but maybe we need to revisit that to be safe? Maybe we need to get very specific with regards to size, etc., in the main thread. An additional table can be set up and we can sell clear frag containers and labels for those that need them. I also noticed that a few people per-registered but did not have frags with them when they got there. Maybe that wasn't clear in the main post?
We were lucky enough to have Jess @ DC there and he was able to throw together a couple of frag packs for these folks.

Silent Auction v. Raffle: I definitely prefer a raffle over auction but I understand the issues surrounding that.

 

[yellojello]

This has been only my second swap, first one being a few years ago, but was wondering if there is always an advantage for beginners over advanced/experienced participants. Has this always been the case? Or have there even better corals as time goes by? It seems that LFS are putting nicer and nicer frags in the bargain bin. So maybe there will be some correlation to future swaps.

People see premium corals as $$$, and obviously there will be less supply available just in general. I think advanced reefers should go into these swaps knowing that they are happy to give nicer corals away while expecting not to get as much back. Think of it as a donation and making other reefers smile Otherwise, like other previous posts, expect greater yields in BAR only swaps or DBTC.

 

[Ahruk]

I really love the idea of prizes for bringing in best coral/ most corals brought ect. I think that it's an easy way to reward members who go above and beyond without alienating new members or non-members.

 

[Piper]

I really love the idea of prizes for bringing in best coral/ most corals brought ect. I think that it's an easy way to reward members who go above and beyond without alienating new members or non-members.

+1 on that. That's a very good idea.

 

[Piper]

I think advanced reefers should go into these swaps knowing that they are happy to give nicer corals away while expecting not to get as much back. Think of it as a donation and making other reefers smile

I know for a fact that a few reefers do just that. In fact, I've seen it at every BAR swap I've been to so far and it's almost always the same folks doing it. You will usually see these reefers active in DBTC as well.

A few have been jaded by the negative aspects of doing this and, unfortunately, I've seen those good people disappear from club functions as a result of that.

 

[neuro]

I also noticed that a few people per-registered but did not have frags with them when they got there. Maybe that wasn't clear in the main post?
We were lucky enough to have Jess @ DC there and he was able to throw together a couple of frag packs for these folks.

There was a large group of folks who registered but did not bring corals and mentioned we were going to refund them the registration fees. The first frag swap I've ever been to was a BAR swap, and the instructions were very clear. This almost makes me feel as if some of these folks were purposely malicious in their intent since there was no way you would come to a frag swap without knowing you needed to bring frags. What makes this theory even more likely, is that a frag swap is catered to a very small niche, and those in that niche are usually knowledgeable about these events--and if they're not, they're usually going to read about what a frag swap is.

To those that this post refers to, I don't mean to be rude. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

 

[iCon]

I think advanced reefers should go into these swaps knowing that they are happy to give nicer corals away while expecting not to get as much back. Think of it as a donation and making other reefers smile

BAR was built around this premise.

I went to my first swap before becoming a member and members outdid each other with generosity and expected nothing in return - Just that the act be reciprocated somewhere down the line. Ditto with DBTC. That said, I'm sure it got disappointing when swap rules were manipulated so you could bring six frags and take home 40, or when you DBTC a free frag and the recipient doesn't take 10 seconds to update a thread.

On the other hand, suggestion to bring back raffles! That'd increase my likelihood to attend by at least 100%!

 

[aquatic mouse]

Thanks for the history! As a new member, its good to see what's gone on in the past.

I agree with everything sfsuphysics said, especially about bringing the raffle back. Those are lots of fun and easy money makers for clubs.

I do what to clarify; there was an end time for the auction. It was announced as 2pm, though I do think the swap should have been paused for it. I felt bad for those picking corals while the auction was ending.

 

[FeliciaLynn]

I would just like to point out to all of you who keep whining about the raffles not happening. US HOLDING RAFFLES IS CURRENTLY ILLEGAL. I won't name names, but another club who recently held their regional swap, knew in advance that the raffles were illegal and held them anyways. Our BOD has decided to actually follow the law and not have the raffles. We have been actively pursuing the paperwork and registration to be able to LEGALLY hold raffles, but this is a slow process since it is a bunch of government stuff.

Stop beating a dead horse and b****ing about the lack of raffles. We cannot have them and will not be able to have them for the foreseeable future. We will be sticking to silent auctions if we would like to have donations to make money for the club.


I would also like to point out that all of these events are completely volunteer run. I am a graduate student with a lot on my plate, and I put a lot of time into running these events. I do not get a lot of help and all I seem to see lately after an event is a lot of complaints about how things were run. If you all don't like it, maybe some of you should step up in advance and offer to help out a bit more. Me and the volunteers do the best we can. Also, keep in mind that a lot of the suggestions you all make create a TON more work for the logistics for running these events and I just do not have the manpower or the time or energy to enforce a ton of rules, separate swap groups, very strictly inspecting corals, etc.

I joined this club with the mindset that its a fun place to hang out with other reefers and have a good time. A frag swap is supposed to be a fun way to spend an afternoon and I've never stressed about getting a ton of super rare corals out of it. The way this thread is going seems very elitist and is going to alienate new members who do not have a ton of rare corals, but still want to participate in the swap. I think the mindset should be that the swap is fun and go into it with a generous heart. Don't go into it expecting to get a bunch of rare corals.


While I completely appreciate feedback and I want people to make/suggest changes, I feel that there has been WAY too much negativity recently. Can people have relax and have fun for once? This is supposed to be a fun hobby-based group and not a professionally run organization with a million rules. Let's relax a bit!