got ethical husbandry?

Thinking about moving in the coming year.

The_Lazy_Reefer

Supporting Member
Hey so me and my partner are in talks about a possible move to Austin Tx in the coming year and this got me thinking about all of my corals/nems and how long of a drive that is (24hrs). The first thought is sell it all and start new in Austin but with the way imports are going and the state of the union on coral prices (insane) I definitely want to keep all of my collection as most of it is over 2 years old and I couldn’t afford to stock a tank with today’s prices the way I like them to be which is full not scattered pieces everywhere. So I’m wondering if making that 24 hr drive with a tank breakdown and coral packing is even a possibility with only one other person on the trip. Anyone do a move like this before and have advice? I’d love to gather as much info as I can before decisions are made. Thanks!
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@jccaclimber just did the opposite trip. He’ll be a good source.

I moved to Colorado about 2 years ago and decided to sell all my livestock. I know people on here offered to store and ship livestock when I got things set up here but I didn’t have formal plans to start a tank so I opted to sell.
 
I went DFW>SF a couple weeks ago by car, although in reality I started on the tank move back in January.
In order of most cost to least cost, which happens to almost perfectly match order of least stress to most stress:
1) Sell everything, use it as an excuse to upgrade, get settled, buy stuff there. I don't know how the scene is in Austin, but Dallas has the largest reef club in the country. It's not hard to find frags of just about whatever you want in a store or at a frag swap, which there are at least 8-12 of in a given year. The hobbyist ones are much cheaper, and there are 3-6 of those a year that I can think of off hand.
2) Sell everything live, move the equipment, get settled, buy stuff there.
3) If you have the time, set up a tank at the destination. This could be an upgrade, but it could also be a used tank that meets the bare minimum you can keep your livestock in. Once it's stable go on a nice flight, use a LFS with an air cargo permit (cheaper than you might think), put it on the same flight as you, offload to the new tank. I actually have the permit now and I wish I'd just done this.
4) Move in a Hail Mary. More on this below.

I just did this drive going the other way with my father (DFW>SF) and from the time we started bagging the fish (maybe 30 minutes before departure including arranging them in to the car, etc.) to the time I unloaded them in the tank here was 32 hours. Now, I had a flat tire at midnight Friday an hour east of Lubbock, TX (an hour outside of almost nowhere) that easily cost me 3-4 hours (diagnose, failed plug effort, partially successful sealant effort, sealant effort that lasted several hours, repair at a tire store 2 states later after they opened). The speed limit most of that drive is 75 mph and we were going roughly 80, so driving on the spare wasn't an option even if we did spend 30 minutes digging it out of the trunk. Fortunately we hit no real traffic backups on the drive. My father did need to stop for 10 minutes or so every 2-3 hours, so that added some time. If you're in a moving truck you may not be going 80 MPH.

Where I'm going with this is that while you might do the drive in 26-28 hours you'll also need an hour or two to pack the fish, tear down and pack the tank they are in, and then an hour or two of setup at the destination if they are going back in to the same tank. That can easily put you at 30+ hours if nothing goes wrong, and if you're going to be setting up a reef tank after 30 hours of limited sleep and driving. I did a 16-17 hour move from Indiana to Texas 5 or so years ago. Just carrying the tanks from the truck up the stairs to our temporary apartment was a lot of effort, and the biggest thing I moved then was a 75 (holding the livestock from a 300 that came with the movers).

If you really do want to go with the Hail Mary here is a rough outline you should consider and expand upon:
0) In advance make sure your tank is clean of excess detritus. This includes making sure your sand will pass a drop test, blowing off the rocks, cleaning the corners of the sump, etc. You don't want this to get stirred up any more than it needs to once you start moving things.
1) Make sure *everything* else is packed up in advance. You want to be able to grab the fish, the tank, and go.
2) If you're driving something big enough that the fish and coral can go in a large 55 gallon drum, trash can, etc, you have more leeway. Get that in the truck (VERY well secured), move the fish, put in a battery powered air pump (or two), and strap on the lid. Consider what braking is doing to do to that much water, consider that you want the water to stay inside the container, and consider that you don't want that sloshing 400 pound load to cause issues with handling. Ideally you would have a large inverter also powering heaters if you do this in a cooler time of the year, although as warm as things are now you might need to stop and throw in a bag of ice (inside another trash bag to keep from diluting salinity, you'll be doing this more than once) to cool things. Having this large holding reservoir will buy you a LOT of time if you can keep temperature regulated. You can also do this with 5 gallon buckets, but then you need more air stones, more trouble to maintain temperature, etc.
3) Roughly 12-24 hours before you plan to depart catch all the fish. They need to be moved so that they'll get a bit nervous and relieve themselves. If their first shock is moving in to the bags they're going to be swimming in a lot of fish waste for 24 hours and that won't go well. Get them to relieve themselves in advance of transportation (in new clean water) and things will go much better for you.
4) Also the night before take out anything not critical. Ideally the lights and any non-critical equipment is packed at this point. Even that extra circulation pump on the opposite wall that's nice long term but not needed overnight should be packed. If you're throwing this stuff in cardboard boxes, open and build the boxes, anything that you can do sooner should be done.
5) Once it's go time get the fish into either the big container, bags, whatever. Start a timer. Do the coral first, it's hardier. Euphyllia should be rubber banded to foam (pink insulation foam is safe) so that they float upside down and don't damage the heads/break the bags. Assume the bags will leak and make sure whatever container they are in is also waterproof, at least on the bottom and sides.
6) If you're going to be bagging the fish then have them bagged in large bags with one fish per bag and topped off with oxygen. You can use the passenger cavity A/C to regulate temperature or put them in styrofoam boxes (buy, or see if the LFS has spares to give away). If you're with a large container with air stones then you can obviously skip this step, but now is the time to move them to that container.
7) Move things to the vehicle that aren't already. Hopefully you planned this a bit in advance, this stuff can take more space than you think.
8) Make the drive safely.
9) Unpack and get water in the display, you might as well mix it in the display. Don't worry about the sump, just stop shy of the overflow. You aren't going to want the water they transported in. You did bring 1.5x as much salt as you need with you already right? And dechlor since you don't have time to make RO water? I suppose you could also transport enough water to fill your display in clean jugs, but most people don't have that many jugs. You could try to buy from a LFS, but if something goes wrong like a flat tire and you arrive after the LFS closes you're in a bad spot, so don't plan for that or at least have a backup plan. Once the tank is on the stand, and possibly before, is the point it which you run a risk of this becoming a one person activity. I had a friend that was actually somewhat excited about helping me drive across the country the first time, but neither he nor my wife were willing to carry anything on arrival until they had a 3 hour nap, and that's 3 more hours on the clock. I wasn't really up for doing anything either, but I had no choice as I needed to get the fish out of the truck in the Texas heat. On the latter trip my father helped, but it was a somewhat tense situation after being cooped up that long and I already had the tank running when we arrived.
10) Get the fish in, get the coral in, get some circulation going. Stop the timer.
11) Sleep a bit.
12) Get the rest of the system going.
13) Offer nori.
14) Stack your rocks and either clean your sand and then put it back in, or put in new sand.
15) Thank your helpers.
 
Oh, and nems are easy. Just get a floating plant basket at the hardware store for $2, zip tie some PVC pipes or foam to the sides so they float, and let the nems live in the basket for a week. This way you can get them off on your (or their) schedule. You can scoop them right out of the basket and they transport like any other coral. Actually a bit easier as you don't have to worry about them putting a pinhole leak in their bag. Obviously don't feed them for a couple days prior to bagging.
 
I moved my system couple of times though short distances. Not to be a pessimist, I always lose lots of the coral which I think mainly due to the system break down then setup which kick in a hard cycle.
Fish usually make it, but coral take it harder.
Couple of learnings I had
1- take water out before you stir the sand.
2- try to use at least 50% of the old water before you stir the sand
3- rinse the sand and store it in the system water if you want to reuse the same sand. Buy u need to rinse it to avoid using water that have a spik in nutrients
4- if you can prepare a system even small one ready at your new place it will help you can dump your water and rocks in then add the life stock while you are plumbing and prepping the main system
5- use carbon and gfo once you done installing the system to combate nutrients
6- make sure your rocks while being transferred are submerged with water and if you can get some of these battery operated air pumps and run it in your buckets(rocks and live stocks)
7- plan for time if you are hard plumbing, you do not want to rush inly to find a leak somewhere
8- keep an eye on the location of installation in advance, you do not want to rush then end up regretting the system location especially in term of support needs and leveling
9- have leveling shives handy should you need it to level the stand and tank
10- get some coral snow product, this one bind harmful particles and make it more easily processed by the skimmer. After you fill in the water use 2ml per 25gallon dose. Water will be cloudy but it will clear in 30min, it's not harmful for the fish and coral
11- make sure you have enough salt water and fresh water at the new place. Budget at least 20% more than what you need

Best thing if you can host your fish with someone you trust, but from personal experience this is no easy task...so good luck and keep us posted.
 
If it were me... it would definitely be multiple trips, first a trip to set up a tank and get it acclimated. Yeah no ins or outs about this, either new tank and new place or old tank at new place but get ready for temporary storage (i.e. some sort of tank) here.

Then book a flight, try to find some cheapy southwest thing or whatever, it'll be cheaper than shipping next day most likely, and much quicker and you'll be in charge of the time schedule, then just ship it with you. Southwest because you get 2 checked bags. Ship corals moist, not wet, and things should do ok...

but I've never done this so I'm just brainstorming here, take other's advice who have done it :)
 
Suggest:
1 : move all livestock into large stock bin or other container.
2 : Move tank to TX, get it set up at new site.
3 : When all is well, then move livestock.

You should look into air cargo shipping.
One of you drops it at the airport here.
One of you picks it up there.
Or you can even hop on a nearby plane.
 
FYI, Southwest was very clear when I asked them that live fish are very much not permitted as checked items, or as carry on items (although this last one is easier to get by). Checking live fish is also against TSA rules, so your odds of losing them in a search are non-zero. They *ARE* allowed as carry on per TSA, although as stated not per Southwest and size rules still apply. They are also allowed as a Southwest air freight item (oddly on the same plane).

One of the LFS here offered to receive my fish shipment and house them for a reasonable cost, but then when I went to execute they stopped responding to DMs (I didn't call, opted to drive instead), so I'm not going to offer up their name. That said, you may be able to find a LFS to hold your fish for a week and air freight them to you so you have time to comfortably move the tank. This may be harder with all of the coral, but that's easier to move in buckets. Still risky, but less risky.
 
Wait wait wait, so you can send live fish if you pay for it by air freight, but if you stick them in your luggage (for free) then no? Jesus, I f**king give up on reason in this world.
 
Wait wait wait, so you can send live fish if you pay for it by air freight, but if you stick them in your luggage (for free) then no? Jesus, I f**king give up on reason in this world.
Not quite. More like registered shippers are allowed to put things on a plane that your average Joe is not. I see this just like TSA Precheck and Global Entry getting you privileged that a random person does not get.
Leaking salt water in a cargo hold is a valid concern. There are some rules around shipping live fish beyond “get this piece of paper then you’re ok” which appear designed to protect the craft and other cargo.
 
Wow thanks everyone! That sure is a lot of good info to absorb and the air freight thing sorta adds a whole new layer of possibility’s to making this work out! So much to think about......
 
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